Help please

[whatapug]

And then there was this on the other forum..

Hello,

We are hoping to get a pug bitch in the near future and would love to have a litter of pups off her.

My partner used to breed labradors for a few years and never had a problem, having looked at pugs for sale we've noticed a lot of bitches being sold that have had C-Sections, & litters of pups that have had to be hand reared.

Want to do as much research as possible before even considering breeding our bitch, so is it common for bitches to need C-Sections, like with bulldogs and is it common for bitches to reject whole litters of pups?

Thank You.

I dont think it matters what people say, the seed is sewn.
the reply was similar to what we have been saying.
Reading this post after reading your other thread saying you are looking for an adult has me a little concerned.

Do I have the situation right - you are looking to get an adult pug from which you want to breed at least 1 litter?

Why do you want to breed? If you are buying an adult not a puppy it looks like you dont' want to show, and none of your questions about finding the right pug concerned pedigrees, bloodlines, conformation etc., how are you proposing to find an ideal brood bitch?

Aslo noted you said you are intending to go down the "Registered Breeder Route" - not sure what you mean by this. IF you are in the UK there is no such thing. People can be licensed breeders - this is via the local authority, and is necessary if you breed more than 4 litters per year (can be less in some areas of the UK), the creiteria have little to do wiht being a good breeder and are simply kenneling requirements. Then there is the Kennel Club Accredited Breeders scheme - this is a voluntary scheme the KC have had going for a few years now, you sign up that you will meet a list of criteria incluiding health testing, puppy contracts, suitable facilities etc. People can still register litters with the KC and not be Accredited breeders.

One or two of the commercial puppy registries have also started schemes which give people titles similar to Accredited Breeder - these are worth about as much as the registrations documents for dogs produced by these registires.
With all due respect,you have had your pug for a month now, you have been to a "fun" show or 2, and he won a rossette. Please take a step back,look at his history. You said you dont have his kc papers. He was mistreated by his former owner,blind in one eye the other eye is damaged...

Basically as per our new puggy, the RSPCA say we do have a case if the previous owners do not come to a suitable compromise.

Basically they are ignoring us.

We've given them the option to refund us and take him back (We don't want this but have to offer it)

Or to take the smart option, we'll take half the money back, and get the surgery done ourself, and look after him, and they'll never hear from us again.

Frankly considering they are ignoring us already, I don't think we'll get a response, we've given them until sunday night to reply, and monday we're pressing charges.

We Know that we can report them through the RSPCA for animal cruelty, as well as through the local council animal welfare office, and enviromental health.

We also know we can go through trading standards for them selling him like that, and the police.

Anyone had to go through anything similar to this, and know what to do?

Thanks.

Please just take a step back

[GothPugs]

I want this closed now, ive been polite and replied to the questions.
All i asked was a few questions.
If you want to stop crap breeding etc then id say go look on every pet for sale website as its full of them!
We have done nothing wrong.
I want this now closed if you want to pm then do so

[GothPugs]

It's not a debate - you're just not getting the replies you want and you don't like it. We're not here to tell you what a wonderful person you are for not knowing a thing about breeding and yet still thinking about doing it. We're here to tell you how serious breeding any dog, especially a pug, is and it's not something to do without any knowledge whatsoever. You said it all - look at all the dogs that are bred with no consideration for the animals - how exactly is you breeding your pug any different? Yep, if you don't breed with this woman's dog, she'll go out and find another stud, but at least you won't be a party to another moron breeding another unwanted litter of puppies. Spend one day in an animal rescue - one day seeing all of the unwanted, disposed of animals, and you'll never again consider adding to that by breeding your pug.

Not getting upset because the replies arnt what i want to hear at all.
Having done alot of help with local rescues i know all to well about it.
Who says here that my friend is a idiot because she wanted to breed her pug? I said the questions were for me not her...
Is everyone on here a idiot who breeds?
Just because a dog has done super at shows dosnt mean it HAS to be bred, some people want a nice healthy pug for a pet not something to win ribbons.
Neither dog is a bad example so why is everyone so againt it?
I have not said im doing it,i was asking some questions is that wrong?
if you feel the need to carry on then ill be happy for people to PM me

[Dieselsmom]

Is everyone on here a idiot who breeds?

IMO most everyone who breeds is an idiot. There are so few select quality breeders. The rest are morons - you wanted my opinion - you got it. I work rescue; I see the work of these idiots every day; the ****** breeding, with no regard for the breed standars whatsoever, the "breeders" who don't stand behind their product. Yep, the majority of breeders are idiots.

[Pugs-R-MandyBait]

Is everyone on here a idiot who breeds?
Just because a dog has done super at shows dosnt mean it HAS to be bred, some people want a nice healthy pug for a pet not something to win ribbons.
Neither dog is a bad example so why is everyone so againt it?

Not at all. The PVers that breed are actually the small minority. The majority of dogs here are rescues or purchased from legitimate and intelligent breeders. Breeders here are very vocal that it is not a light and breezy undertaking and not for the uninformed or casual flibbertygibbit person wanting cute baby puggies.
The vast majority of pet quality of purebreds are from shown and proven pedigreed stock ... not every puppy in a litter is a good representative of the breed. Not every good representative of the breed earns the opportunity to reproduce.
Your friend is not an idiot, per se, but I highly uestion the motives of anyone wanting to breed just to do so or to earn a fast buck. The puppies are lives, souls, where is your friend going to be for those puppies in five, ten, twelve years? A Good Breeder's responsibility does not end with the sale of the puppy.
My father and his partner breed and show Poodles and Bichons ... nothing is bred that is not a Champion. NOt about the ribbons ... it is about proving they can improve the breed or hold the standard. Any puppy (and that is the vast majority in the rare litter they produce) sold as a pet is contractually obligated to be altered. An puppy sold that has a change of circumstance must return to them for re-placement. Is your friend willing to do the same? Papa and Jim have done it for 20 years. Know where every dog is. And those still living are happy and healthy. Those that have passed did so with love and respect and a family distraught at the loss of a family member. Will your friend take such an interest?

[GothPugs]

Im not sure where the idea of her not being experienced has come from to be honest??
Ive no idea where the saying for profit came from? she does not need the money i can assure that.
Im not going into it anymore its her bitch and up to her what she decides to do, i shouldnt have posted it as just seem to be getting people annoyed at me.

And yes is she does choose to have pups they will have loving homes for life.
Its good people care somuch for the breeding of dogs but they should read what ive said,they are quality dogs with loving experienced owner not a idiot breeding what ever for money.

[Pugs-R-MandyBait]

Hardly annoyed ... just mystified at the blase attitude of breeding yet another unnecessary litter of puppies with so many thousands of pure bred dogs in rescue and still waiting in kill shelters.

[Pugpillow]

This might help clarify things:

If it doesn't show up clearly, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

[GothPugs]

Ive had a few Pms from some people saying themself people are not reading what ive wrote on here, so thank you for that :)

Im sorry that my friend wanting to breed her bitch has upset so many, i guess having a well bred nice example bitch whos pups would go to loving forever homes is so bad. A breeder who does breed pugs was surprised by this thread she was confused why breeding properly has got so much negative replys.
Its not like i said she wants to cross breed and sell the pups for money !
I did say i wasnt going to reply on here anymore as im getting slated for asking some questions i shall again say this will be the last post.
Thank you for the nice pms i got from some people

[Rosiepug]

I've read your posts very clearly.
With all due respect you sound like a novice. Nothing wrong with that, we all have to start somewhere and you are doing your homework by asking questions, for that I commend you.

I think the issue is not that you say that you have two nice typey pugs but that you want to breed without having shown them to Champion status thus proving that they are correct to breed standard and that you have not done any genetic health testing or checked the health of the ancestors on both pedigrees.

I keep asking myself the question, what does the person you bought your male from, think of you using him as a Stud dog? I remember she sold him to you because he wasn't good at mating and didn't produce a litter. Is he infertile, or has he been checked for an STD?

Why do you think your puppies will be any better than the ones you are rejecting in the newspapers, pet shops or on the internet?
Essentially they are the same thing, puppies born from a Sire and Dam that are not Champion stock or health checked and equally as important, neither are their ancestors. Some dogs throw genetic problems like cleft palate or luxating patella's.

You mention some breeders have asked to use your male dog. That sounds warning bells too, because most serious breeders, breeding for health, conformation and character, will insist on having a top Stud dog who is a Champion. Many also want the Good Canine Certificate, to show their good character. They wouldn't want a dog that doesn't show and hasn't reach his title.
I find this confusing, I'd be very suspicious of these people.

You asked for information that would educate you and perhaps have been a little overwhelmed by the amount you have received. Nonetheless it does open one's eyes as to the seriousness of breeding any animal and how backyard or hobby breeding starts and how unhealthy (and you may not find that out for the first couple of years) and unwanted puppies end up in petshops, newspapers and on internet sites.

A friend of mine, a breeder who has been showing and breeding for 25 years, with experience of delivering over 30 litters, has just lost half her litter of 6, she's down to three pups after the first two weeks. This can be heartbreaking and difficult for even the most experienced breeders.

It's been an informative debate. Please think carefully.