This NY Times Article is on English Bulldogs, but Applies to Pugs as well

[6 Beautiful Pugs]

GREAT article on Bulldog breeding, which applies to all brachy breeds...do we need to change the breed standard?

This a nine page article, but worth every moment to read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/ma...CC4Us+ZADYQurl

Take care,
Lisa

[MrsGreene]

I posted this the other day too! Very interesting article.

[Pat's Crew]

apparently the bulldog club has come out with their own article to go with this. causing big huge issues with bulldog breeders that breed for the betterment of the breed and follow strict testing and such..........this is more geared they say towards the BYB and so on. I have 2 english bulldogs here and NEITHER ONE has had any health issues. Gus deafness is likely from generations ago and do not think that is what this article is referring too anyhow

[MrsGreene]

Of course the breeders all say it is unscrupulous breeders who cause the problems. What about the concerns that the dogs who best meet the breed standards are the ones who have the most health problems, due to the standards themselves? Pat, how closely do your bullies approximate the breed standard? Our Izabella has a much longer muzzle than is acceptable in a show pug, and yet, she has NO breathing issues. She rarely even snores!!!! She is also more tolerant of the heat than other pugs I have met who have squishier faces. So, if the standard is to be short, with deep roll, but that causes breathing issues, which is healthier for the dog?

I am sure there is a furor, indeed.

[Wally 'n' Leto]

I agree that 'bulldog' could be interchanged with 'pug' in a lot of this article. There is a lovely lady in our obedience class with 2 show pugs from a reputable and successful breeder, who seems not to recognize that the waddly gait and steam-engine breathing of her show dogs is not healthy. Leto, with his unstandard long legs and snout and his slim muscular build, has 10 times the energy (and a thousand times the bounce) of the breed standard dogs. Like Izabella, he hardly snores and little trouble in the summer heat. Our acquaintance's dogs don't leave the house except for quick potty breaks, for 5 or 6 months of the year. And this is CANADA for heaven's sake!!!

I like the look of the old bulldog anyway!!

[6 Beautiful Pugs]

While I find the breed standard pug face adorable with it's flat face, big nose roll and large eyes, I would support changing the breed standard to breed a dog with less conformation related health problems and breeding out genetic illnesses.

Take care,
Lisa

[MrsGreene]

I agree Lisa. And I think both Leto and Bella are every bit as cute, if not cuter, than the show pugs!!

[Pat's Crew]

Of course the breeders all say it is unscrupulous breeders who cause the problems. What about the concerns that the dogs who best meet the breed standards are the ones who have the most health problems, due to the standards themselves? Pat, how closely do your bullies approximate the breed standard? Our Izabella has a much longer muzzle than is acceptable in a show pug, and yet, she has NO breathing issues. She rarely even snores!!!! She is also more tolerant of the heat than other pugs I have met who have squishier faces. So, if the standard is to be short, with deep roll, but that causes breathing issues, which is healthier for the dog?

I am sure there is a furor, indeed.

ok finally getting back to this thread..lol
Both of the bulldogs here are very close to standard..Gus was actually bought as show.....
he has the pushed in face, the great gait and all the rest of it and he has had no health issues but the deafness and that is another story not related to the article..
but he is very healthy and DOES NOT even snore..at all

Bella is close to standards too..she snores but she is very very healthy

both of my bulldogs are heathier then what the vet actually expected but then again..........I keep their weight to the standards too..Bella is about 42 pounds give or take a bit..and Gus is 52 give or take a bit.
I keep my dogs on good dog food and they get plenty of excersise too..

the bulldog clubs had lots to say about the article too and there are many many bad bred bulldogs out there..............lots of them. many puppymill bulldogs too with tons of health issues......
the bulldog club is coming out with their own article to go with this
many of the breeders of bulldog are checking hips and so on with their breeding programs and the list goes on

they feel the article is a bit of a hype..

.................................................. ..........

but on the pugs side..........both of my pugs are brothers and the same father and mother........
yet Zeus snores and Max does NOT
Zeus is shorter then Max and has more of an issue then Max for breathing too
and this is of the same gene and the same family......
so maybe some of it is hereditary....in the genes somewhere
they look like brothers in every sense
they weigh almost the same at the moment........but Max is for more energetic then Zeus

I have had no major health issues with either of my pugs..
bought them from a respectable breeder and she has had no issues in her lines either...
maybe depends on the breeding too ...

personally I think genetics plays a huge part in all this.........
in relation to health issues.......the same in people sometimes too

[Pat's Crew]

wow that was longer then planned...lol

the other thing that I forgot here is that I had a boston terrier.that lived to be oldest of her breed in the world at 19 and half when she went to the bridge. she had a spinal injury as a young dog and no arthritis even when she died, she ate crap for dogfood but still had a great coat and such. she was a fussy fussy eater..
she was full of energy and stayed right to breed standards for weight and she did SNORE big time
but she really had no other issues then the spinal infarct ...and that is not what the article is about either

her Grandfather lived to be a very old boston
her father had a long life span
as did her sister
and also her mother

so genetics is what I am thinking more then anything else plays a huge part in this...

the sperm is held in a bank from her grandfather that is one fo the top bostons in the world and is worth lots of money...although he has long crossed the bridge..
I know that the price went up when my boston lived as long as she did..lol. I emailed him and told him. I got tons of emails from breeders on what she ate and so on............but genetics is the best I can come up with this.
she was active too........and even caught a mouse blind and deaf at 18 years old.......

[Pat's Crew]

also as for the heat for the pugs..since that is discussed here
the heat does not bother Max one bit but it does Zeus..
so go figure makes no sense