Pug with Pde
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Thread: Pug with Pde

  1. #1
    Hollycirca87 is offline New to the Village
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    DefaultPug with Pde

    Hi guys, I'm new here, unfortunately I didn't find this forum under better circumstances. My little boy pug Loki has been diagnosed with PDE at just 3 years old. It started just over a week and a half ago when he started limping in his back left leg and originally the vets thought he had just hurt his leg until the next morning when he had his first seizure. He had an Mri and they made a most likely diagnosis of Pde.He has had 8 seizures in 11 days, some worse that others, as has been in and out of the vets during this time. He is in steroids and seizure medication but so far it's yet to take affect as the vet said it could take up to 2 weeks for the medication to work. I'm finding it quite hard to accept the diagnosis as they said its the most likely cause as his age and symptoms are consistent with PDE. He had his booster vaccinations 2 weeks before any of this happened and have read that in rare cases dogs can develop encephalitis as a complication of this which the vet didn't really seem to want to listen to. Anyone here been through a similar experience with their pug and how did they coped with everything? I'm finding it quite hard as I know PDE is basically a death sentence for a pug, I can't stop crying and it's affecting my daily life. I feel like I'm already grieving for my pug whilst he's still here and I don't want this to affect my time that's left with him. Any advice is more than welcome.

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    puglover22's Avatar
    puglover22 is offline Village Royalty
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    I'm sorry to hear this, but I'm not totally convinced it's PDE, especially since you said he had vaccinations 2 weeks before this. I'm wondering if it's some type of reaction to the vaccines. Does he have any other symptoms, the head pushing, etc? Please get another opinion from a different vet, especially since your vet didn't want to listen to your concerns (of course not because then you would blame the vet). If the vet tells you it's a genetic problem, it allows the vet to save face.......I'm sorry I'm just not buying it.....
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    Stephanie, pugmom to Louie Livewire, born 3/15/06
    and my 3 angels waiting at the bridge....
    the very special Junior, my pug angel who is doing agility at the rainbow bridge 11/22/91 - 3/13/06
    the very special Danny, my first dog, a Dandie Dinmont Terrier 4/5/70 - 2/10/84
    the very special Paddy, the pug who was loved around the world, who my family had the pleasure and honor of loving for the last 3 years and 5 months 5/1/98 - 8/6/14

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    Hollycirca87 is offline New to the Village
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    Thanks for your response. i don't think he does head pushing, I think maybe once or twice but he does pace in circles which is consistent to PDE symptoms, he also doesn't jump up or down off the sofa like he used to and he doesn't like going up or down the stairs anymore. The vet I spoke to said usually reactions to vaccines appear within 24-48 hours and it's just possible it could of trigger the PDE more than anything. I asked another vet st the same practice if it's possible anything else could cause inflammation of the brain and she said its rare but toxicity could cause it, I did mention that my dog likes to eat everything off the floor when we go out for walks so maybe he had eaten something dodgy but I think the vets just think I'm hoping it to be anything other than PDE which I am and just said in the future they could do s blood test and see if anything else is going on.

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    puglover22's Avatar
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    I would still seek out the opinion of a different vet, maybe a neurologist.
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    Stephanie, pugmom to Louie Livewire, born 3/15/06
    and my 3 angels waiting at the bridge....
    the very special Junior, my pug angel who is doing agility at the rainbow bridge 11/22/91 - 3/13/06
    the very special Danny, my first dog, a Dandie Dinmont Terrier 4/5/70 - 2/10/84
    the very special Paddy, the pug who was loved around the world, who my family had the pleasure and honor of loving for the last 3 years and 5 months 5/1/98 - 8/6/14

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    Snifter's Avatar
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    My understanding is that whilst PDE can start at any age up to about 7 years old, the typical onset of symptoms is between 9 and 19 months. It usually starts in the acute, rapidly progressing form, and I would expect you to see more than seizures.

    Encephalitis of any kind is hard to diagnose definitively - my Toddy had meningitis a few years back and that could only be definitively diagnosed via lumbar puncture (at which point they were able to confirm that he did not have PDE). His occured a few weeks after vaccinations and although it was outside the window in which vets would ascribe it to the vaccines, it was within the window in which it would be blamed on vaccinations in a human. At any rate the specialist said he was never to be vaccinated again.

    My understanding is that encephalitis is treated with steroids (Toddy's was) and anti-seizure meds would seem to be fairly obvious, given your pug's seizures. So it does sound to me as if the treatment is probably right even if the diagnosis is not.

    If you can afford a specialist (or are insured) I would strongly recommend asking for a referral to Dick White Referrals in Newmarket. I don't know where in London you are but DWR is just a short sprint up the M11.

    If the steroids work then there are danger points as you reduce the dose and wean him off, but it worked fine for Toddy.

    Sorry you are joining us under such worrying circumstances. I hope your boy makes a full recovery and please do keep us posted on his progress.

    Pug hugs.


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  7. #6
    Hollycirca87 is offline New to the Village
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    The vets sent off the Mri to a neurologist who then made the diagnosis. Not sure what info was given, I doubt they told them about the vaccination though I'm not sure how much difference that would of made. I think I'm just grasping at straws here because I don't want to lose my little one.

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    Snifter's Avatar
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    As for the blood test - why has one not been done already? It is a fairly basic thing to do in such circumstances in case something else is going on.
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  9. #8
    Hollycirca87 is offline New to the Village
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    They did one already before his Mri to check he had no underlining problems but I think she was meaning testing for something specific.

  10. #9
    Hollycirca87 is offline New to the Village
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    Glad that your little puggy is ok! What symptoms did your pug have? Did they originally assume it was PDE?

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    Snifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycirca87 View Post
    They did one already before his Mri to check he had no underlining problems but I think she was meaning testing for something specific.
    Well, the blood test could not diagnose PDE or any other encephalitis, that's for sure.

    Although the MRI has been seen by a neurologist - I don't know. I think I'd want a neuro specialist to actually look at the patient. To put it bluntly, if you are going to grasp at straws then at least grasp onto a realistic one - which is to take him to a specialist neurologist ASAP. You don't seem 100% convinced by what the vet is telling you and as a pug mum you MUST go with your gut feeling. If you trust your vet 100% but are venting here just in case we have some other straws to throw at you, then of course that's fine. We're here for you and your pug and will offer as much support as we can. If, however, you are not 100% confident in your vet then you are entitled to insist on a referral to a specialist. The vet cannot refuse (though many try) and I have had to insist before.

    To illustrate how you have to go with your gut, when Toddy had the meningitis he had to be admitted to DWR on a Sunday. They mentioned the possibility of meningitis but the symptoms could have been many things. They wanted to rest him and give him an antibiotic drip overnight and then go for the diagnostics on Monday. On Monday he was very cheerful and they were prepared to send him home and put it down to "just one of those things". Because he had been so ill I suspected the adrenaline of being in hospital was masking how he truly felt, and opted to leave him there and have them do their tests, starting with the least invasive. Nothing was abnormal in bloods or MRI and it was not until the most invasive and dangerous (lumbar puncture) that they discovered the meningitis. Without that test he would be dead by now. So sit down, have a drink, search your heart and go with your instincts, whatever they may turn out to be.

    Pug hugs.


    Bella, mummy to Snifter and Toddy!

    http://avrilmunson.wordpress.com









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