Submissive Peeing.... At the END of my rope....

[Uggapugg]

We got Ugg in mid December of last year. She was about 4 months old. We figured out pretty quick she's a very submissive girl. She pees submissively, a LOT. We had hoped once she had been here a while her confidence would grow and this would taper off. Instead, it's gotten worse. She is 99.99% housebroken. Yet I am cleaning up pee anywhere from 5-15+ times a day from her (no exaggeration). I've learned there are just certain things I can NOT do around her, and I am constantly walking on eggshells, to avoid cleaning up puddles., but it's still out of control. Thank DOG I've got all laminate/linoleum floors downstairs, because if we were carpeted, honestly I've have tossed her out on her pugbutt by now.

I can't take it much more. Something's gotta give. We even let her out frequently hoping that even if she goes through the motion, she will be too empty to submissive-pee, but even then, when potty time is over (and I WATCH her pee) she still piddles when I lean over her to remove her leash. So even successful potty breaks result in my cleaning up pee. (and yes, I've tried the leash-removal-approach differently, so as not to lean over her....it doesn't matter)

It's getting old. No....it's BEEN old for a while now.

Other than that, she is a wonderful dog. She gets along well in the house with the other animals. She was spayed last month. She plays with our son. She has an exceptional personality, though she is not a very personable dog to strangers when they come to our house (which I'd love to socialize her better, but can't take her in the car without some serious planning to avoid pee-soaked seats, and taking her to pet-friendly-stores is out of the question for the very same reason).

If I sound frustrated, it's because I am. I'm *TIRED* of cleaning up pee. It'd be one thing if it was a housebreaking issue that I at LEAST had hopes of training out of her, but how do I convince her I'm not going to beat her???? I seem to be her main fear, but she does it with the rest of teh family as well.

Ideas? Suggestions? Anyone want a pug mix? ;-)

[Pugs-R-MandyBait]

**when I lean over her**

That's it right there. That is a dominance move to a dog. I never, ever, ever allow anyone to reach over my Doxie's heads. It is a great way to get bit.

Kneel down, sit down, get on the floor, and ask her to come to you to remove the leash, to pick her up. Communicate on *her* level, where she can see you without feeling that she is being swooped down on by a predator - no matter that you are her guardian and she is safer no where more than with you.

Put her in a carrier/crate to go for car rides ... it is a safe cave and you can take her out and put her in at a level that you are not leaning over her.

Does she have a play pen/ex pen/gated area where she can watch the family and feel on her territory without anyone coming close enough to hover or lean?

This is no overnight cure ... and some classes with a trainer might just be in order
Good luck!

[Uggapugg]

I understand there will be no overnight fix. She's done this from day 1. I'd hoped for some at least mild improvement by now though.

As I mentioned, I realize leaning over her is a nono, so I did switch up my approach in unleashing her. Even getting down on her level, just simply reaching for her causes her to squat. I've tried it while talking without tone, with happy tone, or without talking at all and not even looking her general direction; most times it doesn't matter.

And at times just me talking to her (there doesn't seem to be any specific pitch/tone/circumstance) will cause her to piddle. No touching, no leaning, just a word her way....down she goes.

She is crated when people come over. If she acts like she wants to come out and see, we let her out. People that visit know not to approach her or even acknowledge her unless she comes to them, and even then it is usually just an extended hand to allow her to sniff.

Crating her for car rides is fine, but getting her in and getting her out of the crate causes her to piddle. Even at night, our routine is potty, upstairs, bed (crate). We've gotten this crate routine down very well so that I don't even have to touch her (except to hook/unhook the leash at potty, in which she piddles) and even my reaching to close the crate door usually results in some piddle in her bed.

She is no longer allowed on our furniture.
She is no longer allowed to play in our son's game room (carpeted).
She is no longer allowed to have big comfy bedding in her crate, and now has very washable sheets/towels/etc.

Its as if we're punishing her for something we really shouldn't have to punish for, but these things needed to change because I absolutely won't have an animal peeing on our couch or carpet, and I have to be able to wash every surface she touches.

I'm to the point of wanting to diaper her. And it seems a darn shame to diaper a housebroken dog.....

[AMC7181]

The best advice I can offer is from an article in Whole Dog Journal from a few issues ago: Training Your Dog to Prevent Unwanted Urination - Whole Dog Journal Article

It sounds as if you've already tried much of this, but I figured I'd pass it along anyway in case there is any info you might find helpful. It's a bit long, too. I'm not posting it to preach at you - I sincerely hope there is some tidbit in here that you might read and might end up being helpful. I'm sure I'd be frustrated if I were dealing with that situation.

Excerpt from article:


If it’s too late for prevention, or you are dealing with submissive urination despite your appropriate environmental management, all is not lost. It is possible to modify submissive urination, although it can take a healthy helping of time, patience, and commitment. Here’s how:

-Whenever possible, greet the dog outdoors. Have someone let him out to greet you in a fenced yard or other safe area when you arrive home. If no one else is home, ignore the dog until you let him out, and then greet him outside.

-Keep your greetings calm. Rapid body movements and loud or excited voices are more likely to trigger a release of urine in both submissive and excitement urinators. Move slowly and speak in a calm, soft voice. Have all family members and visitors follow the same behavior guidelines. The more consistent and successful everyone is in not triggering the behavior, the sooner it will go away.

-Take him out frequently to pee outdoors. A full bladder releases more easily – and makes a larger puddle – than an empty or near-empty one.

-When you do greet, either indoors or out, turn sideways to the dog, kneel down with your upper body straight rather than bending over, avoid direct eye contact, let him approach you, and scratch him under the chin rather than petting him on top of the head or on the back of the neck.

-If an accident does happen, do not react verbally or physically. Calmly invite the dog outside and then clean up the puddle.

-Give visitors treats or a toy to offer to your dog. This encourages the dog to increase body height and move forward (more assertive behaviors) and gives guests something to do other than pat the dog’s head.

-Teach him to target. Like taking a treat, having him target his nose to your hand encourages him to offer a more assertive behavior in greeting. Invite your guests to ask him to target to their hands – open palm, fingers pointed down.

-Implement other confidence-building protocols such as “Find It” and “Treat and Retreat.” (For more about these bravery-building exercises, see “Be Brave,” WDJ September 2011.) When you can’t control the behavior of your visitors, perhaps during a large party, keep your dog crated or closed in a safe room, where he won’t be subjected to urination-eliciting behavior.

-Use one of the various doggie diaper or belly-band products that are availableto catch the urine and prevent damage to carpets and floors while you work on modifying the behavior.

-Remember that your dog can’t help it. Reminding yourself that he cannot control his response helps you to avoid getting angry and minimizes the possibility that you may inadvertently send body language signals that tell your dog you are upset and as a result trigger more submissive urination.

-Take your dog to a good, positive training class. Not only can the trainer help you with the submissive urination challenge, but the improved communication between you and your dog that occurs as a result of positive training will help him gain more confidence and end his submissive responses sooner.

-If modification efforts are not successful and the behavior continues into your dog’s adulthood, consult a veterinary behaviorist or behavior-knowledgeable veterinarian about the use of medications that can increase the dog’s general muscle tone and control, including the muscles of the urethra.

[6 Beautiful Pugs]

Try cornsilk. You can get it at health food and vitamin shops. 1 capsule opened and sprinkled in her food twice daily. It helps many dogs with urinary problems. I would also ask the vet to consider a trial of anti-anxiety drugs. Proin may help her as well, but I would try the cornsilk first.

If you can afford it, a consultation with a behaviorist (not a trainer) may help too.

Take care,
Lisa

[Uggapugg]

Thank you for that, AMC.... not preachy at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get. I've googled submissive urination til my eyes cross.... I'm open to any/all suggestions. lol

6 Beautiful Pugs.... Proin is more for an incontinence, not necessarily a behavioral urination, I'm wondering if it wouold even be beneficial to Ugg's circumstances? I assume Cornsilk is for the same?

I've considered a DAP diffuser, I've heard good things about them for things like separation anxiety, I'm wondering how helpful they'd be for Ugg..... I'd buy 20 and plug them in to every freakin' outlet we have, if it'd work. lol

[Hellas]

You have my sympathy. I'm assuming you've had her checked out for UTI just in case? If not, I'd do that. Apart from that, I think you've had some great advice here. It seems to me that building her self confidence would be important.

[Snifter]

I would try DAP and, to be honest, I would try diapers as well so long as you have time to monitor and change them as needed.

I have never had to deal with this, so may be totally off, but I think dogs pick up on our stress very, very easily. The more you can do to reduce your stress the better.

[Buddy's Mom]

I would try DAP and, to be honest, I would try diapers as well so long as you have time to monitor and change them as needed.

I have never had to deal with this, so may be totally off, but I think dogs pick up on our stress very, very easily. The more you can do to reduce your stress the better.

I was thinking the same thing. One thing I learned as a groomer is that totally ignoring the dog while doing something that would ordinarily cause submissive urination works best. Meaning no talking, no eye contact, nothing. Just do what you have to do without engaging the dog. Maybe you can try a diaper while taking a different approach and see if it helps? I understand your frustration though, even though I've never had to deal with it.

[6 Beautiful Pugs]

Yes, both cornsilk and proin are for urinary incontinence, my reasoning is that she may have weak muscles especially when excited/stressed, so it may help her a bit.

Take care,
Lisa