Pinning a dog down? Greeting dogs on walks? Crazy neighbors?! :)

[luluthepug]

Ugh. Just typed this note and pressed the "back" button by mistake and erased the ENTIRE thing!!

What IS it with people? On our walks we see small dogs (Boston, Shih Tzu, etc). No problem: sniff, greet, on our way. Wagging tails. Fine. We have only had these pugs a month, so we are taking it slow. Don't want to throw them into too situations with other dogs we do not know. We think it's best to keep meet & greets short - if at all.

Here's the thing:

One neighbor's (rescued breeder, large terrier) showed nervousness, then (quick) aggression towards Baby (barred teeth, growl, stiff body, low head, tail up). She doesn't like her butt sniffed, and of course that was what Baby was trying to do. Baby reacted defensively, barking to keep the big dog away (can't blame her!). No contact. DH walked away with Baby, who was trotting happily next to him, sniffing at the ground. The terrier was still seething (I stayed behind to talk to the neighbor). They pinned the terrier down and said "Don't you watch the Dog Whisperer? This is what you are supposed to do". They want to have a "play date" and I'm thinking they don't NEED play dates like that!

Yesterday another neighbor was walking 2 big labs. The labs and pugs had sniffed before, but hadn't met on leash. She pulled the female away after she growled and then lunged at Baby! What is up with that???!!! Baby's tail was wagging. The choc lab WAS bothered (i think) by Wally barking at her (that's a bad habit that we are working on with him). Again, no contact was made. And THAT neighbor ALSO referenced Cesar Millan!! Said it was normal for dogs to lunge at other dogs (??). All I can think is that I don't want another (avoidable) vet bill and certainly don't want Baby to be attacked! I will say that both times with the big dogs, Baby defended herself well - she barked a big, big bark at them and adopted the "leave-me-alone" posture.

What is it with the Dog Whisperer?

I think it's amazing what he's able to do with some very tough cases, but prefer Victoria Stillwell and her positive reinforcement methods. I'm not a fan of the pinning and the physical pokes.

It does seem, as we are out and about more, that some people seem to think it's a RIGHT that their dogs meet our dogs. I tell my kids to keep walking, and praise for good behavior (which they always have unless someone is growling in their face like these 2 instances!). The neighbor dogs are left outside for long periods of time (invisible fence), and are walked infrequently.

Is there a proper way to "meet and greet"? As soon as Wally's stitches are removed and healed, we will take them (separately) to training. We don't want Baby to become fearful of big dogs either.

Is this a female thing? A big dog thing? I'm thinking it's these two particular dogs who are nervous and not really socialized a lot. The choc lab is with her buddy all day long, outside but is always barking at other dogs who walk by. The terrier barks at dogs walking by too. I'm not interested in having MY pugs used as a socialization tool for these nervous dogs!

I remember that Lulu let a few of the annoying big dogs at training know that she did NOT want them in her face - in no uncertain terms. She never bit, but did the pug bark/snarl thing. They were quick to learn to respect her space! (Oh, I miss that little girl!).

So. WHAT is it with people??!!

Kara

[puglover22]

for the most part people are idiots.......
next time someone mentions the dog whisperer, try to get in a word about Victoria Stillwell
there are proper ways to meet and greet. a good obedience class will practice these sorts of things. I'm glad you're going to be taking them for training

[diesels.mom]

I love Cesar but totally disagree with certain things he says (like that it's normal for dogs to lunge.. wtf?!). I also believe when he said to pin dogs down he said DO NOT try this unless you're a professional.. I watched an episode once where some dog nearly ripped his arm off for doing that, not sure I'd want to risk that with my own aggressive dog thank you.

Some people are just stupid. I would absolutely tell them to watch Victoria Stillwell's TV show next time rather than Cesar.

[ayleash]

It's really important at meet and greets that the dogs do NOT feel tethered and unable to get away.. which, in effect they are... so, one human per dog, and loose leash, and everyone human MOVING in order to be WITH their dog, NOT tangled, and able to walk away after the circle or half-circle around... it's like a drive by sniff - LOTS is being communicated by dogs' head, tail and body position and angle.. LET them do it... but if someone you are greeting has been a lunger in the past, keep the circle BIG.. let the DOG decide how close, how fast and when enough is enough...

all this is easy to SAY, I know... but... good for you for "Reading" the situations that are NOT working...

[luluthepug]

I love the drive-by sniff!!! :)

Yes, people ARE idiots. I've watched lots of Dog Whisperer, and have never heard him say that lunging is "normal and OK". He might have said that it's a natural instinct - I'll give him that. But always a reaction to something. My neighbors, I''m afraid, are a little mixed-up. I like Cesar too, and am very interested on his take about dog psychology. But don't agree with everything he does. Victoria, though? I LOVE her and am going to spend my school vacation watching every show...! Wish my neighbors would. They seemed to think it was "just the way she was" (the terrier). But I'm thinking that poor dog is very stressed LOTS of the time. She needs some serious work...

Will talk to the fam about the "drive by" sniff too. We worked on that with Lulu in training, but she wasn't ever an issue - she was half blind and couldn't of cared less about other dogs...!

Kara

[Mountain Mom]

I've watched most, if not all, of the Cesar episodes before I discovered Victoria. I, too, do NOT remember him ever implying that lunging is acceptable. In fact, they both spend quite a lot of time trying to modify that very behavior! Your neighbors are indeed idiots and at all costs you must protect your babies, even if it means insulting the neighbors or their dogs. Sorry, I'm in one of those moods today...

[luluthepug]

Thanks - The funny thing is that we have always loved these neighbors - they are funny and nice and great gardeners (gardening is my passion). But the dog thing - well, it's just totally different from what is acceptable to us. So we'll continue to be friends, but keep the dogs apart. Funny how things like this can be soooo different. I did hear the DH say (as I was leaving) "Geez, you are going to have to figure out how to behave like a dog" to his terrier. Well, maybe start by not pinning her?! I think even Cesar wouldn't approve. Gotta protect our pugs....!

Oh, and the pugs went for a walk this afternoon and met the two up the hill from us - no problems at all and these guys were bigger. Nice boys though.

:)

Kara

[jstpugginalong]

I think sometimes the biggest problem with people is that they watch Cesar and instantly think they can use his methods and get the same results without actually learning the proper "when, where and how" of it all! I see the same thing with horse owners that will buy a DVD about training and then they are suddenly a "horse trainer" NOT!!! I love the "drive-by-sniff" and think that you are an amazing Pug Mom and will do whatever is best for your babies ( ;

[pugaddiction]

I too love the drive by sniff, but at this point with Eddie if we accomplish a silent drive by no sniff I am happy. Zoey is like Lulu, couldn't really care less about other dogs and just wants to be on her way, but Eddie thinks he needs to smell everyone and decide for himself if they are safe or not. Most he finds unsafe. Good luck with your two, sounds like you are doing all the right things to me. Have fun are your walks.

[Fla. Pugs]

for the most part people are idiots.......
next time someone mentions the dog whisperer, try to get in a word about Victoria Stillwell
there are proper ways to meet and greet. a good obedience class will practice these sorts of things. I'm glad you're going to be taking them for training

A dear friend of mine had the pleasure of working with Victoria Stillwell. Her ideas are the best. Ceasar, I do not agree with.