Help! Totally Baffled by Puppy's Peeing Habits!!!

[mss]

Ok, this is a long one, but I need advice, big time; I am totally baffled by Frida! Tomorrow she'll be 15 weeks; she has been with us for three weeks. The first week she was with us, she had some accidents (of course) but never peed in her crate. The second week we caught her, about three times, running into her crate during the day, when it was left open, and squatting right there (I think I posted about this)! She would then quickly run out. Because she was doing that, we started denying her free access to her crate. I frankly thought it was because she was already learning that she shouldn't just pee on the floor in front of everyone, so would therefore go do it somewhere "private". I now think I was giving her more credit than she deserved! Since then, in this last week, she has started peeing (has done it about four or five times) in her crate WHEN SHUT INSIDE. In other words, she had only been doing it when she could quickly dash out, but now she occasionally does it when the door is closed and she cannot get out. Here's the thing: I am home most of the time or have someone here, so she is never left in there for long periods of time. In the three weeks she's been with us, she has not spent more than 90 minutes in her crate at a time during the day. I have read other posts about causes of crate peeing and I am telling you, it has NOTHING to do with us not taking her out enough or with her being in there for long periods of time. In fact, this morning, I took her outside to pee. Ten minutes later my husband put her in her crate so we could all eat breakfast in peace and we saw her squat in there within the first 2 minutes! Just tonight I took her out, she went and when I put her in her crate about 20 minutes later, she did the same exact thing. We had a babysitter last night and we told her to just put Frida in her crate by 8pm to sleep after taking her outside to pee/poop. When we got home at 10pm, the towel in there was wet. You get the idea! It's bizarro, especially since it's not like she's been doing that since we got her (then I would think it was just how it was for her with the breeder)...this is a TOTALLY NEW THING. Ok, so here's one more important detail: She has never done it at night. In fact, she sleeps pretty long stretches. Usually we take her out at 9:30 or so and then she does not go out again until around 3:30-4:30am. Her crate has never been wet at that time. I get that she's fast asleep and that could be part of it, but it also suggests that she has bladder control, no? That she should NOT need to go in her crate during the day, 10 minutes after she's gone outside!!?? I know it sounds weird, but I honestly feel like it is becoming her little way of protesting being shut in. It's usually not when we're all out and she's left alone, but when she's in there and we're eating, or when I go out and the housekeeper is here. Something like that. I am just so baffled because I keep reading about how dogs don't like to soil their "dens" and it seems like we're just moving in the wrong direction...it feels like it's happening more and more, instead of less and less. I am worried that one of these days she is going to start doing it at night, too. What do I do? I thought maybe she had a UTI but then why would she be able to hold it so long at night?? That wouldn't make sense, right? Has anyone else dealt with this and what was the end story -- please tell me it turned out well! Thanks for listening...

[Wally 'n' Leto]

If she's sleeping deeply she may not feel the discomfort of a UTI. I think if I were you a this point I'd be ruling it out before assuming something behavioural.

[Snifter]

I agree with ruling out a UTI.

If there is no UTI then

a) what are you cleaning the crate accidents with? It needs to be something that completely removes the smell so even she cannot smell it.
b) are you consistently praising and giving her treats when she potties outside? It is vital to keep this up even when she appears to start getting the message
c) try changing the type of bedding in her crate. Some pugs prefer a particular type of surface to pee on (typically carpet or nice flat towels!). You could try having no bedding in there, or you could scrunch up the towels. If the crate is big enough for her to be able to pee in it but not have to lie in the pee afterwards then the crate is a bit big. You could fill up the crate with lots of (washable) toys. The idea is to make it almost impossible for her to find a nice flat surface to pee on in the crate. She will not be uncomfy as she can just nest and snuggle in the toys when she wants to sleep. Snifter went through a phase about that age of consistently pooping in his crate. Drove me nuts.

[Smart Pugs]

We feel your pain!! Our Noah (aged 12 weeks) has decided he HAS to pee on all toys!!

[mss]

Thanks for the feedback. I will call the Vet and explain, see what she says. But how do they confirm a UTI? Or do they just guess and do antibiotics to see if it works? Here's the other thing that we don't get: Frida does not indicate when she has to go. She just goes. The first week, when she was in her crate, she would whine and scratch at the door...then we'd let her out and she'd go pee/poop. Now she doesn't seem to do that. Last night I took her out at 4am to pee. I waited for a while but she didn't do anything else (just sat on the grass and stared at me) so I took her back in and put her back in her crate, got in bed myself. Not even 5 minutes later my husband and I shot up, smelling poop. Sure enough she had pooped in there!!! She had done it in the back and was leaning against the door, standing up, clearly not happy, but she never ONCE made a single peep to suggest she wanted out! In other words, I am afraid this peeing thing is making it so that now she is okay with just going in there!!! We do clean with special dog pee/poop cleaners, I wash the bedding in vinegar, etc. So I can't imagine it's the scent of her crate. As for the bedding, I may try taking it out. She is in a small plastic crate (the kind you can carry) and it's hard for me to imagine it's too big...but maybe? It does not have dividers but I suppose I could build one from cardboard. Or maybe I will just roll up a bunch of towels and create a buffer. Ok, will let you know what the vet says!

[Snifter]

Loads of pugs don't tell you when they have to go. Good luck!

[Oregon Pug Mom]

Hang in there-you're still dealing with only a 4mo old. who pretty much goes only on impulse actions. Marley is almost 5 mo & I have days when I feel good about our potty progress & others when I feel we've gotten no where! I take a couple of deep breaths-have a cup of coffee & watch her wonder around the back yard in all her cuteness & regroup. I would try Snifter's ideas they sound good--& remember Frida can't dream up anything to do that hasn't already been tried by a baby here!!

[shaynapug]

Praise, treats, more praise...more treats!!!!

Mine have learned when they go out and potty that I immediately give a treat as I'm there with them. They also know that when they go potty outside they get a treat when they come in. (I have adults and use diet dog food) Lots of times...they go out just to come in to get a cookie...so I have to watch for that!

It will come! Or...you'll learn her habits as she gets older and you'll be trained!!!

[mss]

I did not know that pugs famously don't tell you when they have to go! We had weimeriners when I was growing up and I remember they would just and stare at us -- not bark or fuss, either. Makes it kinda hard if you're not looking right at them! As for the praise and treats, believe me, I am doing it by the book! And when she has an accident in the house sometimes, I don't get discouraged...I know that's normal. What is bothering me is the peeing in the crate, especially when she wasn't doing that three weeks ago. I can't help but feel like we are moving in the wrong direction!!!

[shaynapug]

The peeing in the crate could be anger.....I do believe they do that!!!

My family got a beagle when I was out most of the time. The beagle was really attached to my sister. My sister went on vacation...and when she came home.....and way laying in bed....KD came up and peed on her head!!!!

My first pug, Rhodi, was spayed. At the time, we left dogs at least 2 days...if not more. She was a runt......and had to be lifted onto the bed. I lifted her up the night I brought her home.....She maintained eye contact with me......and went to my pillow and peed on it!!!!

Why don't you try an xpen with more room to play etc when you're in the house and have to put her up??? If she has an accident.....tell her shame...you go outside.....and take her out. If she doesn't do anything....can either put her back in the pen or just let her out with you with no treats! When there's activity, the dogs are more active and pee more!! At night while you sleep...they sleep.