Training question (not a pug)

[Snifter]

I met a Sue at a dog psychology day with "A" (not my regular trainer). Sue has 2 rescue JRTs. We have kept in touch to compare training notes.

She has a problem with her JRT, Warren, pulling and barking at other dogs when on walks. I said I would ask the PV gurus if they had any tips for her.

Here is her latest email on the subject:

The tin tray method (the one I hate) is what A introduced us to on our first visit, when we took him out and he started barking at other dogs A hit him on the head with a tin tray when he wasn't looking (I don't know if it scared me more than Warren). I did actually try it on myself and it didn't hurt it was just the noise it made. It did stop him barking for quite a while all I had to do was carry the tin tray with me and tap it on my leg if I thought he was going to bark. Warren has now got back into his old habits and A said we should just use the tray again but I find this extremely difficult especially when we are out, I couldn't possibly do it I don't think everyone would understand.

When warren sees another dog he will pull on the lead to get to it, and the more I pull him away the more he wants to go to them. We did actually go over to two golden retrievers that he knew a while back but after a while he locked on to one of them but did eventually let go with no harm done, they were allot bigger than warren so I don't know if one of them had maybe done something to him before. Warren will also bark at his friend across the road who we walk with once a week until we start walking and then they are the best of friends. Warren was about 4 to 5 years old when he came to us and we don't have any history on him, so I think that maybe he has had a bit of an unhappy start to life. He will also sometimes bark at people but at other times will just ignore them and be quite relaxed. These problems aside he is such a lovely dog absolutely no problem at home an absolute joy and really tolerant of little Millie who is just about 11 months and loves him so much but she is starting to pick up warrens habits of barking!!! I've never heard of training discs this could maybe something to look into.


As you can see, I had to ask her what the "tin tray" method suggested by the trainer was, and I can well see why she has not persisted with it.

I'm sure she would very much appreciate any hints anyone can offer.

My personal inclination is to suggest she tries a session or two with my regular trainer, but my trainer and A know each other, and I don't want to fall out with A.

[cmdoppler]

A kinder idea than the tin tray would be to carry a container with things that would make a noise (like an old spice container with a few marbles in it) and shake it to get his attention (but NOT hit him on the head with it!) and reward him with a treat when she has his attention. Hopefully the reward will distract him while the other dogs pass.

[Snifter]

A kinder idea than the tin tray would be to carry a container with things that would make a noise (like an old spice container with a few marbles in it) and shake it to get his attention (but NOT hit him on the head with it!) and reward him with a treat when she has his attention. Hopefully the reward will distract him while the other dogs pass.

Yes - I suggested training discs for much the same reason.

[ViralMD]

She needs to get a little booklet, available on Amazon, by Turid Rugaas, called 'Calming Signals.' There's also another little book about getting a dog to calm down, but can't remember what it is. Essentially you reward the dog for paying attention to YOU, not the other dog. Some people I know have the dog in a 'sit' for every dog they pass, until it becomes second nature.

With a JRT, all bets are off. I trust those dogs about as far as I can throw them.

[CountryGal]

A kinder idea than the tin tray would be to carry a container with things that would make a noise (like an old spice container with a few marbles in it) and shake it to get his attention (but NOT hit him on the head with it!) and reward him with a treat when she has his attention. Hopefully the reward will distract him while the other dogs pass.

I once got my paint horses to come using rocks in a coffee can. They thought it was grain! Our caretaker didn't chain the gate latch one morning and they were out eating alfalfa! Can you say COLIC?? Anyway, it worked perfectly but I wonder if they would fall for it twice.

[ayleash]

I see the oncoming dog(s) BEFORE my dog does and pre-empt his reaction by doing lots of "jolly talking" - it is what it sounds like - high happy squeaking words to him and only him accompanied at first (and for many months) with extra yummy biscuits.. I don't ask him to sit because that is waaaay to submissive or dangerous a position from a dogs point of view to be in when there is a "threat" nearby.. but usually the food is what he is interested in...

We change our direction if possible and avoid the other dog(s).


My Tigger (Rat Terrier - but really a FEIST which is an offshoot of a fox terrier) now can be OFF leash at a park, see the oncoming dog(s) - sometimes before I do, and break from his "head down" assessment (see Turid Rugaas!) and come away with me. I still have biscuits.. and he knows it.

I have been doing this for about 6 months with him after my first year of bonding training with him which included agility and the basic commands. "we" are almost content with life as it is now..

Good luck.. and she is going to have to be patient.

[Pugasaurus]

There's a wonderful book called "Feisty Fido" by Patricia McConnell. A short booklet and an easy read, very simple steps to get the dog to not be a nut on a leash.

I teach the dogs an alternative behavior. My all-time favorite is to 'watch me'. I get lots of aggressive dogs who aren't real nuts about either people, dogs or both. I do classic conditioning first, dogs/people = yummy treats. The dog needs to be at a 'safe' distance first, close enough where the dog is aware of the odg/person but not close enough where they are barking/lunging. Once dog has made connection, the dog is slowly moved closer to the dog/person until eventually the dog can be next to the other dog/person and they no longer aggress.

This is not an overnight process, it usually takes several weeks to get a dog to be ok around the former trigger, but it can be done. I had a horribly dog-aggressive pit bull/heeler mix that I got to be ok around other dogs and I've had several other terriers and terrier mixes that I've had to work with so it can be done.

There's also a more in-depth book called "Aggression in Dogs" by Brenda Aloff that's very helpful as well and I also like "The Canine Aggression Workbook" by James OHeare.

[Snifter]

Thanks everyone. I've passed on your comments (save for your comment about JRT's, Alice. I entirely agree but don't think the owner would appreciate such a comment about her baby!!! )

I think I shall get a couple of those books myself. They sound interesting.

[H the P]

Just picked up on this one, Bella.
I will put on my long-time terrier owner hat, and simply say that Warren is a JRT. Which should probably be sufficient. But just in case it's not, I will add that, in my experience, almost all terriers can be a pain, and almost all of them will behave similarly to the way Warren behaves. Or worse.
I have never, ever heard of the hitting on the head with a tin tray thing before. I'm afraid I can't even bring myself to comment on it politely.
I have, however, heard of the container with something in it that rattles really loudly when the dog is being particularly naughty thing, and I believe this can be very successful.
I wish your friend the best of luck with her feisty little JRT. If she would like a chat, please feel free to pass my phone number on to her. But as you know I'm not a dog trainer, just a dog owner!

[Rosiepug]

Bella,

I think physically punishing the dog i.e. hitting it with the tin tray, however lightly, will do more harm than good.
Shaking pennies in a tin has the same effect as training disks, another idea would be getting his attention with a squirt from a watering pistol. However, the only thing I can think of that will work 100%, would be Obedience training 101 (beginners) The dog must pay attention to the owner no matter what the distraction. She really needs to be able to put the dog in a sit or down command. Very difficult under the circumstances but she could build up to that and make her dog work for everything.... 'nothing in life is free'.

I had a similar problem with Rosie wanting to run in all directions on her leash to try to greet people passing by. I let her greet a few but couldn't stop all the time for her to say hello to everyone or I'd never have got anything done. I gave her the 'look at me', sit, down, wait commands followed by treats. It's exhausting work. She often doesn't like to pass very large dogs but if I have a treat and say 'look at me, heel' she will pass the large dog and I reward her.
It will be difficult with an aggresive dog but the principal is the same.
Sorry it's not a quick fix but it's a permanent one with daily practice, for life.