Too smart for our own good

[bumble]

I'm trying to get Paddy to stop barking some things (hah!) by using the clicker. When he barks, I say, " Enough", click, and give him cheese if he stops. Unfortunately he learned very early on what to do to get treats, and now he sits, barks while looking at me at me (doesn't even wait for things to bark at), and if I don't move, barks again, only this time in that murfing reminding voice. What am I doing/not doing wrong and what should I be doing/not doing?

[daphne & sempy's mom]

My Bostons did the same thing with getting treats for going outside to potty. After they figured it out, they would ask to go outside, run around the yard, and then come inside expecting a treat! What we did to break them of tihs is just not give them a treat everytime. They would always get a "Good Girls!" but not always a treat. I figured if they're smart enough to manipulate the system they're smart enough to know what they're supposed to/not supposed to do!

[Rocko_Parson]

wow too smart! Rocko does that with the shake move. I will get out a treat and I do not even have to tell him to sit or shake he just plops hiis butt down and sticks up his paw! Too funny! So we are moving on to lay, he hasn't got it yet. But he is stubborn!

[Snifter]

Try some other training for now. We have just started clicker training and when Snifter is not sure what to do he offers either his strongest behaviour (which in his case is a "down") or the thing we have been training most (currently a "high five"). So if you train a couple of other things rather than concentrating a lot on the bark training then with luck if he wants a treat he will at least offer a quiet behaviour rather than a bark.

I believe, also, that if you want to use clicker training to STOP a behaviour as opposed to starting one, that you first need to teach the behaviour and then stop asking for it, so in theory it will then not be offered. In theory...

[ViralMD]

It sounds like you've got it backwards....are you clicking after he barks or when he's silent for about 15 seconds? If you're doing the former, you're reinforcing the barking....

[SaraFaust]

Try some other training for now. We have just started clicker training and when Snifter is not sure what to do he offers either his strongest behaviour (which in his case is a "down") or the thing we have been training most (currently a "high five"). So if you train a couple of other things rather than concentrating a lot on the bark training then with luck if he wants a treat he will at least offer a quiet behaviour rather than a bark.

I believe, also, that if you want to use clicker training to STOP a behaviour as opposed to starting one, that you first need to teach the behaviour and then stop asking for it, so in theory it will then not be offered. In theory...

I really like the sounds of Bella's ideas! (And Bella, I think we'd all love to see a video of Snifter performing his tricks!)

It sounds like you've got it backwards....are you clicking after he barks or when he's silent for about 15 seconds? If you're doing the former, you're reinforcing the barking....

And I have to agree with Alice here- a clicker is generally used (as far as I know- which admittedly isn't much about it) to reinforce a desired behavior, such as a trick, not stopping an undesired one. My Suki had/has a huge barking problem, and I tried a sudden noise to get her attention but nothing would deter her from barking. So I started saying in a firm, loud voice: "SUKI!" until she paused to look at me, then in the same voice I said, "THAT'S ENOUGH!" and I'd walk toward her, and do the same if she kept barking, then when I got close enough to pick her up, I'd say it again, and if she was quiet then I gave her tons of praise, "Good Girl Quiet!"- but no treats, ever. I am stunned that she actually got the idea rather quickly- she now will bark at another dog or a person, and I still have to do the "Suki...that's enough" routine a couple/few times, but usually after a couple times she'll come running toward me wagging her tail like mad, looking for her praise for being quiet! If she won't stop for some reason, I pick her up and carry her in the house, without a word, and ignore her for about 5 minutes. If she's quiet in the house then I'll praise her.

I don't think she's barking more than she did before, in order to get the praise, because she's just going to bark forever if I don't stop her- at least now she can get in a few satisfying barks before she has to stop for lovin's- and the neighbors won't hate me!

Good Luck!

[Pugasaurus]

Aren't dogs smart? He's learned that barking=treat.

What you might try doing instead is teaching him an alternate behavior (being quiet is not a behavior, the old cliche that if a dead man can do it, it's not a behavior applies here .) My fav alternate behavior is 'watch me', but the key to success is teaching your dog that 'watch me' is the new, rewardable behavior, not bark, watch, treat, or as you have found, your dog will bark just to get treats.

So...to prevent that from happening, spend lots of time training your dog to do this new behavior first, train it as a stand-alone behavior and get some degree of reliability (80% is the standard) before you start to tie it to the barking.

That way your dog has a nice reinforcement history for doing this alternate behavior, he's fluent at doing it and he likes doing it because he's already gotten tons of treats for doing it.

So when you start to tie it to the barking, the reinforcement history of the alternate behavior makes it an easy decision for the dog. Heck yeah, he'll want to do watch me or whatever it is that you decide instead of bark. What should start to happen after awhile, your dog instead of barking will come and intently stare at you or do whatever behavior you've trained. And make sure you reinforce the heck out of that once the dog has made the connection, then you can slowly (over the period of weeks) start to taper off rewarding the new alternate behavior.

Hope this makes sense, just got home from work and I'm tired......

[henrysmum]

I think that rather than you training Paddy, it's Paddy who is doing an excellent job of training you !!!

Seriously, we have the same issues with Ellie. She's my little barker, which wouldn't be so bad except the pitch of her bark is so high that it hurts your ears

Sorry. Not much help am I?

[Georgia]

I find diversion works well, instead of the barking I demand they SIT, and they are then rewarded for the alternative behaviour, initially with treats, tapered off to GOOD PUGS and enthusiastic pats, as well as the ocassional treat when I need to reinforce the desired response.

Visitors are amazed at the change, whereas previously they were greeted by crazy barking Pugs, I can now call them off and they, (Pugs not visitors) will behave beautifully until I release them, when the incident/commotion is over anyway and there is no longer any need to bark.

[Rosiepug]

I'm having a barking problem since buying a new 40 inch Tv.
Rosie thinks everything on the Tv is coming into the room to invade her space.
After weeks of trying to stop her noise, I've decided I'm going to have to crate her in the same room, with a towel over the side where she could view the screen and give her a lovely marrow bone for complying with her confinement.