Dog Show Politics

[Tikki]

I am so disgusted with the politics of dog shows. I paid money to entire, I prepared myself and my pugs for the shows. I have competitive good quality pugs. I have seen exhibitors come extra early, park their kennel next to the judges seat/table and chat away with the judge before going into the ring and winning the points. Or to see exhibitors during group chit chatting and laughing with our next days judge. Or to see a long time dog show exhibitor bring in a pug that has a bad front and rear end win the points. I am tired of judges judging the show based on who is on the other end of the lead and not judge the dog. It's not that I don't know this happens, it does, but to be so blant about it right in front of everyone to see disgusts me. I don't understand how exhibitors who win this way at any cost, can honestly call this a WIN. I was told when I first started showing pugs/dogs years ago that " not always the best dog wins". And AKC wonders why dog show entrys are down. I think exhibitors and judges who do this should be fined. What do you think ??? tikki

[Rosepugs]

I feel your pain, as a owner/breeder/handler I have seen it too. I find the politics are usually between the judges and pro handlers. They attend judges dinners, and pal around with some of them at times. But as proven at Eukanuba, they can be beat, and nothing is more rewarding then to beat handlers by out handling them with a better dog. I am slowly working towards applying for my judgeship someday. And I feel I can be objective since I will be coming from a breeder's view, rather than a handler's one. Many judges were once pro's. May I suggest something? The only control you as a handler have, is to withhold your entries from judges that are obviously being unfair. I keep a list, and write down what I feel they were looking for in a dog. If I can get the just of what type of dog this judge is looking for, I will either bring them their type, or at least give them another entry. If I walk away shaking my head, having no clue what he/she was looking for. or worse yet, pulled the political "card" They get one more chance and after that, no more entries from me. If all of us did this, then the poor or dirty judging, would be less common. The clubs depend on our entries to keep their clubs in the black. No entries, no hiring judges that can't pull a good entry.

[Luvbean25]

Since the very first dog show politics have been the name of the game. I enjoy showing dogs because of the exhibitors, the chattiness, and the politics. You are right the best dog does not always win, but the best dog can win.

You are showing in an area with some top competition and not to mention so well known breeder/handlers. I have shown in Madison and it was tough. The people were hard to crack...I would like to mention that little me from Tampa Fl that shows for a hobby, flew up to Madison 4 years ago and scored a major. It can be done.

Showing dogs is about playing the game and winning at it. The people that are friends or chatty with judges is because they have been "around". Remember judges were once breeders and/or handlers, they did no just wake up and start judging dogs. You also have to remember that for some people showing this is their JOB, not their hobby as it is for me (and you). When it is your job there is a different mind set.

I remember being at Nationals a few years ago and at the big dinner I was sitting at a table with one of Florida's big hitters. She said to me "you know you are the only one that makes me nervous in the ring". That was the best complement I could have ever gotten. Since that day whenever I am in the ring with her, I smile and ask her if she is nervous, I smile, get in line and do my best to beat her. When you go in with this drive and confidence the judges will take notice. I don't care if I lose. My win does not determine my sale of puppies (heck I really never have any to worry about) and it does not validate who I am. For some winning is how they make a living.

Dog shows are about the dogs too and there are judges that will look at the dog and not the person. I have those judges in my little "black" book and even if I mentioned the names someone is sure to disagree. You and I will always have to work harder to get a judge to look but when they look there are usually good things to follow. When I was showing Noah in classes, I knew the minute I walked in the ring, if he was gonna win or lose. When we won it is was all the way and when we lost it was brutal. I LOVED it!!!

I have been out of the ring for almost a year now, and I am hoping to get back in soon. I love the feeling of stepping in the ring, with my head held high, hoping the person next to me is saying "ohh why is she here". Florida is a touch state to show and win in but I love the challenge and don't give a hoot if my competition is entertaining the judge at their RV, I am there to represent a breed I adore and represent that there are still nice people showing.

Showing is sort of like asking is the glass half full or half empty...

BTW, perhaps I have missed them along the way, but I would LOVE to see pics of your kids. Who are they out of?

[Bethy]

I understand your frustration, too, but I have been in pugs for only 6.5 years now, and have finished four champions, with another two dogs that have 6 and 7 points respectively, and they have all been handled by me, an owner/handler.
I do not attend a lot of dog shows, because I am only able to attend shows that are within 2 hours from home, as I have other dogs at home, and no one to tend to them but me. I am not able to stay overnight at hotels, but must drive home after shows, and drive back the next day, so all of my dogs I have finished, have finished with VERY limited showing. I do not know most of the judges, as, here again, I don't attend shows every weekend.
What I am saying, is, that it is VERY possible to finish your own dogs, if you have good dogs, and are a good handler, but you must LOOK like a pro, to win. Handling is one of the most important facets of showing. The fact that a person may have a good dog, is a moot point, if the person showing that dog is a mediocre handler.

[FourteenLegs]

I was very active in showing (never breeding) many, MANY years ago. Even served two years as president of the Pug Club here in NSW.

I showed my first three pugs to their titles. I was very lucky - I came in as a complete novice but had the good fortune to have the breeder of my Pugs stand behind me. She was a well known judge and I have NO DOUBT her presence and word-in-the-ear of some judges helped me win on occasions. I was not really aware of it at the time, but becoming better educated later on made me realise what part it played in accomplishing what I did. That was well over 25 years ago. I am just glad that I can objectively reflect on my Pugs at the time and know they were wonderful examples of the breed and a great number of the wins were under international judges.

In 1997 I decided to enter the ring again with my new puppy Puck, who had been superbly bred and I thought probably the best Pug I had ever owned. Although in the half dozen shows I competed in she was placed and won twice, I could see I was being beaten by "faces". I found it incredibly frustrating and left the ring never to return.

It happens all over the world and until they legislate against "fraternising" with the judges (HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!) it will never stop. You just have to work harder and harder to become a force to be reckoned with.

[shaynapug]

I feel your pain, as a owner/breeder/handler I have seen it too. I find the politics are usually between the judges and pro handlers. They attend judges dinners, and pal around with some of them at times. But as proven at Eukanuba, they can be beat, and nothing is more rewarding then to beat handlers by out handling them with a better dog. I am slowly working towards applying for my judgeship someday. And I feel I can be objective since I will be coming from a breeder's view, rather than a handler's one. Many judges were once pro's. May I suggest something? The only control you as a handler have, is to withhold your entries from judges that are obviously being unfair. I keep a list, and write down what I feel they were looking for in a dog. If I can get the just of what type of dog this judge is looking for, I will either bring them their type, or at least give them another entry. If I walk away shaking my head, having no clue what he/she was looking for. or worse yet, pulled the political "card" They get one more chance and after that, no more entries from me. If all of us did this, then the poor or dirty judging, would be less common. The clubs depend on our entries to keep their clubs in the black. No entries, no hiring judges that can't pull a good entry.

I do the same thing with judges. If I'm not sure....I'll ask around...or take a chance on entering!

It used to be that you could look at a pedigree ....see the Ch. and know that it was a good pedigree. At this point, to me......I need to know who showed the dog......and see pics to see if ...to me...the Ch. was well earned and that dog is something to possibly look into for breeding or buying something that is out of said dog!

[Rosepugs]

Since the very first dog show politics have been the name of the game. I enjoy showing dogs because of the exhibitors, the chattiness, and the politics. You are right the best dog does not always win, but the best dog can win.

You are showing in an area with some top competition and not to mention so well known breeder/handlers. I have shown in Madison and it was tough. The people were hard to crack...I would like to mention that little me from Tampa Fl that shows for a hobby, flew up to Madison 4 years ago and scored a major. It can be done.

Showing dogs is about playing the game and winning at it. The people that are friends or chatty with judges is because they have been "around". Remember judges were once breeders and/or handlers, they did no just wake up and start judging dogs. You also have to remember that for some people showing this is their JOB, not their hobby as it is for me (and you). When it is your job there is a different mind set.

I remember being at Nationals a few years ago and at the big dinner I was sitting at a table with one of Florida's big hitters. She said to me "you know you are the only one that makes me nervous in the ring". That was the best complement I could have ever gotten. Since that day whenever I am in the ring with her, I smile and ask her if she is nervous, I smile, get in line and do my best to beat her. When you go in with this drive and confidence the judges will take notice. I don't care if I lose. My win does not determine my sale of puppies (heck I really never have any to worry about) and it does not validate who I am. For some winning is how they make a living.

Dog shows are about the dogs too and there are judges that will look at the dog and not the person. I have those judges in my little "black" book and even if I mentioned the names someone is sure to disagree. You and I will always have to work harder to get a judge to look but when they look there are usually good things to follow. When I was showing Noah in classes, I knew the minute I walked in the ring, if he was gonna win or lose. When we won it is was all the way and when we lost it was brutal. I LOVED it!!!

I have been out of the ring for almost a year now, and I am hoping to get back in soon. I love the feeling of stepping in the ring, with my head held high, hoping the person next to me is saying "ohh why is she here". Florida is a touch state to show and win in but I love the challenge and don't give a hoot if my competition is entertaining the judge at their RV, I am there to represent a breed I adore and represent that there are still nice people showing.

Showing is sort of like asking is the glass half full or half empty...

BTW, perhaps I have missed them along the way, but I would LOVE to see pics of your kids. Who are they out of?

I agree with you, if or when it stops being fun, I won't be showing any longer. Our dogs in the Northwest are very tough, and it isn't just one or two breeders here, putting out awesome dogs. We have at least 6 or 7 breeders, with a exceptional breeding programs to compete against. This keeps us sharp, and constantly improving our dogs to keep up. I went to a large show in Northern California one year. I had taken Flo Jo and Italia while they were still in the classes. Amanda took her class puppy. It was a 4 day show and BBE and open classes averaged about 10-12 bitches in the class. There was 34 bitches entered every day. I was speaking with a gentleman that asked where we were from and why we came there for those shows? He then proceeded to tell me how tough their dogs were, and how it was good for us to measure our dogs against theirs. Basically, to see where we could improve. All this while Amanda's 9 month old puppy won his classes and earned a 4 pt major. Flo won her huge BBE class everyday but one, and then she took a 2nd. On bred by day, she earned a best bred by and went on to a group 2. Italia took her open class every day, and finished on the last day with a 4 pt major. lol

Without good breeders to compete against, it would be easy to sit back and rest on our "laurels".

[shaynapug]

I think it's great competing against good breeders. It's the handlers that come in and can win with anything that get my goat!

[Rosepugs]

I think it's great competing against good breeders. It's the handlers that come in and can win with anything that get my goat!

Me too, and it really gets my goat. lol

[Rosepugs]

Since the very first dog show politics have been the name of the game. I enjoy showing dogs because of the exhibitors, the chattiness, and the politics. You are right the best dog does not always win, but the best dog can win.

You are showing in an area with some top competition and not to mention so well known breeder/handlers. I have shown in Madison and it was tough. The people were hard to crack...I would like to mention that little me from Tampa Fl that shows for a hobby, flew up to Madison 4 years ago and scored a major. It can be done.

Showing dogs is about playing the game and winning at it. The people that are friends or chatty with judges is because they have been "around". Remember judges were once breeders and/or handlers, they did no just wake up and start judging dogs. You also have to remember that for some people showing this is their JOB, not their hobby as it is for me (and you). When it is your job there is a different mind set.

I remember being at Nationals a few years ago and at the big dinner I was sitting at a table with one of Florida's big hitters. She said to me "you know you are the only one that makes me nervous in the ring". That was the best complement I could have ever gotten. Since that day whenever I am in the ring with her, I smile and ask her if she is nervous, I smile, get in line and do my best to beat her. When you go in with this drive and confidence the judges will take notice. I don't care if I lose. My win does not determine my sale of puppies (heck I really never have any to worry about) and it does not validate who I am. For some winning is how they make a living.

Dog shows are about the dogs too and there are judges that will look at the dog and not the person. I have those judges in my little "black" book and even if I mentioned the names someone is sure to disagree. You and I will always have to work harder to get a judge to look but when they look there are usually good things to follow. When I was showing Noah in classes, I knew the minute I walked in the ring, if he was gonna win or lose. When we won it is was all the way and when we lost it was brutal. I LOVED it!!!

I have been out of the ring for almost a year now, and I am hoping to get back in soon. I love the feeling of stepping in the ring, with my head held high, hoping the person next to me is saying "ohh why is she here". Florida is a touch state to show and win in but I love the challenge and don't give a hoot if my competition is entertaining the judge at their RV, I am there to represent a breed I adore and represent that there are still nice people showing.

Showing is sort of like asking is the glass half full or half empty...

BTW, perhaps I have missed them along the way, but I would LOVE to see pics of your kids. Who are they out of?

I meant to ask you Sarina, if one of the heavy hitters was Carol Giles? She has some outstanding dogs, and I consider her a good friend. But I don't think I would want to compete against her a lot. ha~