Why and How I Feed Raw - updated July, 2010 (includes Breakfast Slop recipe) - Page 2
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Thread: Why and How I Feed Raw - updated July, 2010 (includes Breakfast Slop recipe)

  1. #11
    daijuk's Avatar
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    Hi Pugpillow,

    Thanks for posting your recipe! I do have a few questions about your post:

    Yes you can feed the breakfast slop for both meals but I wouldn't.
    1) Why wouldn't you serve the slop for both meals in a day?

    I would suggest that you chop up the meat/poultry/fish and serve it in a bowl flooded with water
    2) Is this for the slop or the evening meal. If for the slop, you add water AND yogurt?

    serve one fish (approximately 6 inches long) each, including the head
    3) Are the small fish bones not a problem? I would have thought the bones would poke their mouths, throats, etc. like they do mine.

    4) How do you get ground meaty bones? Do they sell them ground or do you buy, say 6 lbs of duck necks then find a friendly butcher to grind them for you? Or do you have your own grinding machine?

    5) How do you mix the puree with the 6lbs of ground meat? Are there mixers strong enough to do this (and available for retail) or do you mix it by hand (ie stirring)? I ask because ground meat is so dense that I've always found it very tedious even to mix only a few pounds of ground beef and seasoning. It seems difficult to make sure the seasoning is mixed through evenly.

    6) If you buy ground meat (not meaty bones), does it matter how lean it is?

    7) Finally, I was hoping to start with duck because it is a bit more exotic and might help with one of my girl's serious allergy-like problems. But after some research, it appears that any raw poultry could transmit avian influenza to dogs. Is this a concern for you? If not, why not?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by daijuk; 12-19-2010 at 09:51 PM.

  2. #12
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    I also feed raw - this is a very informative post. Elsa is on a 'simpler' diet!!! She has minced (ground) meat in the mornings and chicken bones in the evenings. I do make up a batch of raw veg/egg with codliver oil and when I remember suppliment her mince with powder garlic and green powder (A blend of kelp, alphalfa, nettle and parsley). When I have it in the house a dollop of yogurt.
    As she is still growing the amounts vary but I go by her weight and stools to know if all is well.
    Also as I'm still undergoing training - she does get the odd chunk of cheese, and piece of carrot if I'm cooking them for ourselves.

    I have also found that this diet helps if you own a dog that scavenges... Elsa is quite good, but previously my other dog would be found eating all sorts of undersirables and it never affected her stomach!
    JJ and of course Elsa

  3. #13
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    I've included the answers in your post below

    Quote Originally Posted by daijuk View Post
    Hi Pugpillow,

    Thanks for posting your recipe! I do have a few questions about your post:

    1) Why wouldn't you serve the slop for both meals in a day?
    Because it's better to give the dogs a variety of proteins so they don't develop a food intolerance from over-exposure to one protein source. Plus for younger dogs, the (supervised) chewing of meaty bones at night is good for the jaws and teeth. I chop up the evening meal because all but one of my pugs is seriously geriatric and can't chew all that well.

    2) Is this for the slop or the evening meal. If for the slop, you add water AND yogurt?
    Yoghurt at one meal is plenty. I happen to add it at breakfast (it's good to hide Betsy's pills in as its pungency disguises the bitterness of the pills) but you could add it at night instead. I have started adding water to all their meals, being careful not to let the water dissolve the yoghurt and pills, because I think the more water you get into them, the better for their kidneys and the less likely they are to develop UTIs, struvite crystals or calcium oxalate stones.

    3) Are the small fish bones not a problem? I would have thought the bones would poke their mouths, throats, etc. like they do mine.
    Nope, the bones are quite soft. i do remove the tails and any sharp fins (e.g. on tilapia). I've found that some pugs don't like the heads (so I put them in a bag in the freezer and use this when planting trees or transplanting bushes).

    4) How do you get ground meaty bones? Do they sell them ground or do you buy, say 6 lbs of duck necks then find a friendly butcher to grind them for you? Or do you have your own grinding machine?
    I buy already ground chicken bones direct from the abattoir twice a year in big boxes filled with frozen blocks. You could ask your butcher to order it in for you or if you happen to live in Ontario, Canada, I can help you source it. The duck abattoir is nearby so I also pick up a couple of cases of frozen duck necks which I semi-thaw and refreeze into meal-size portions (approximately one neck per pug, or slightly less). I used to serve the duck necks whole and let them chew away, removing it when it got down to the end so they didn't choke, but now because they can't manage that, I chop them up into bite size pieces with OXO kitchen shears (about $35 at Home Outfitters); this is a little time-consuming for multiple pugs. I tried grinding them but the hand-grinder wouldn't take it. We don't have a lot of butchers in my area so having them grind is not an option. There is a LOT of bone in duck necks - too much for every day. You will know you're serving too much bone when their poop is white because of the calcium

    5) How do you mix the puree with the 6lbs of ground meat? Are there mixers strong enough to do this (and available for retail) or do you mix it by hand (ie stirring)? I ask because ground meat is so dense that I've always found it very tedious even to mix only a few pounds of ground beef and seasoning. It seems difficult to make sure the seasoning is mixed through evenly.
    I hand mix but use a food processor - one dedicated to the pugs - to make the puree. My current one is a Hamilton Beach large capacity (12 cup?) wide-mouth which I purchased at the factory outlet for under $40 Canadian. I puree all the ingredients except the ground chicken bones in this. I add the pureed ingredients from the food processor to the ground chicken bones in a very large pot (I use my mother's old marmelade-making pot) and simply use a long metal spoon to stir by hand. It doesn't take long, especially if you let the mixture sit for 5-10 minutes. The pureed mixture is fairly runny (dare I say "slop-py"?) so the mixing isn't hard work.

    6) If you buy ground meat (not meaty bones), does it matter how lean it is?
    Not really, although the less fat the better to avoid pancreatitis. But the ground chicken bones from the abattoir are pretty fatty. I think the cider vinegar in the slop mix and the pureed veggies help "cut" it.

    7) Finally, I was hoping to start with duck because it is a bit more exotic and might help with one of my girl's serious allergy-like problems. But after some research, it appears that any raw poultry could transmit avian influenza to dogs. Is this a concern for you? If not, why not?
    Nope, not a concern. In North America, safety and food handling standards are fairly high. In Ontario, even our abattoirs are rated by the health inspectors on a regular basis. I think a bigger concern is the safe handling of raw poultry so as not to spread salmonella to the human handlers so normal hygiene methods should be used - washing down the counters and implements used after preparing the slop and dinners. Salmonella is not the same problem for dogs because of their much shorter digestive tracts.

    As for the allergies, is your girl currently off all grains, including treats? Grains are the biggest allergen in the dog world so eliminating them first is my recommendation if you haven't already done it.

    Hope this is helpful. Best of luck
    .

    Thanks!
    "You cannot afford to subject your animals, or your children, to medical interventions that you do not understand. The belief system upon which the conventional medical model is founded is so faulty, so corrupt and so dangerous that you simply cannot afford to follow blindly." Catherine O’Driscoll http://www.whale.to/vaccine/driscoll1.html

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  5. #14
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    Thanks Pugpillow! I believe there is some grain in her kibble (we're using Burns at the moment) but are in the process of switching over to raw food. Your information has been extremely helpful to us in making this switch. As far as bird flu goes, we are currently living in Hong Kong - arguably ground zero for bird flu, so unfortunately, I guess raw bird meat is out for us. Thanks again!

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    Your dogs eat better than I do!
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    The extra cost is more than offset by the minimal vet bills we have now as compared with previously.
    "You cannot afford to subject your animals, or your children, to medical interventions that you do not understand. The belief system upon which the conventional medical model is founded is so faulty, so corrupt and so dangerous that you simply cannot afford to follow blindly." Catherine O’Driscoll http://www.whale.to/vaccine/driscoll1.html

    Hilary & the Pugpillow Gang: Rescues: Denver (10), Tina (7), Murdoch (5) and chihuahua puppy Maximus Spartacus. Always loving my angel-girl Mei-Ling (1994-2009), my cutie-patootie Kim-Soo (1995-2010), my precious Daisy-Bo (1998?-2006), my sweet boyfriend Jake (1997-2010), my little black beauty Betsy (1995-2010), my sweet old grumpy man Gooey (1996-2011), and my sweet gentleman Farnsworth (1998-2012) at the Bridge.

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    mummy_of_pip is offline New to the Village
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    i hope i dont sound stupid cause as much as i research i still want to know more..... Im getting a puppy, a little girl named pip in a couple of weeks now the breeder feeds an average dry biscuit and puppy milk. I want to feed raw over a period of how long should i transition and how do i do that? Do i feed her say 2 kibble meals a day and 2 raw or mix raw with kibble for all meals. Also my butcher said he makes up pet mince which is chicken frame and beef liver mixed up nothing else is it ok to use this and then just blend up some veg like spinnach, cucumber and pumpkin and mix it with the pet mince. Also does say a chicken wing/neck for example count as one meal for a puppy?? lol new to the indoor pug puppy always had big dogs that were happy with table scraps and bones

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    This is the most informative post I've ever read on RAW, and honestly, even though it freaks me out to feed raw, I really want to consider this!
    Do you wash the raw meat before feeding? As in,salmonella??

    So in a week, lets say per pug...ie.:
    Monday you will feed slop for breakfast, and dinner is a chicken wing and some greens?
    Have you got any specific meal plans you do, as in a routine of meals? Just fascinated :)
    Jilly likes this.
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    Wow, I am concidering going raw, and this is a very informative posting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stazz View Post
    ...Do you wash the raw meat before feeding? As in,salmonella??
    Average healthy dogs with average immune systems have virtually no risk of salmonella poisoning. Dogs are equip with much stronger digestive systems and are quite able to handle this bacteria. And despite sensationalized stories of infected people in the media, salmonella poisoning is a pretty unique and rare disease affecting humans as well. I'm the U.S., an individual has a 0.25% chance of infection from salmonella poisoning and the risk of actually dying from samonella is 0.5 ppm (part per million). Putting this into perspective, a person under the age of 91 has a chance of 11 ppm of dying from influenza or pneumonia. You are also much more statistically likely to die in a traffic accident (100 ppm) or even be murdered (33 ppm female/ 108 ppm male). Looking at it from that standpoint, your risk assessment is very low (especially is you take care to handle the food properly) and the risk to your dog is beyond negligible. Hope this helps curb some fears!
    Last edited by JenniferJuniper; 08-02-2011 at 05:22 PM.
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