Important Information Regarding the Pug Breeding Forum
Note: You must have 10 or more quality posts before being granted permission to post in the Pug Breeding Forum.
The subject of breeding is problematic for internet communities like PugVillage.com. On one hand, discussion of this subject is vital to the long-term condition of the Pug breed. On the other hand, I'm well aware that breeding is a sensitive subject which can quickly become heated and personal. These are simply statement of facts. Nothing more, nothing less.
Weighing both of these facts side by side, I came to the conclusion that the potential benefits of having a forum about breeding outweigh the risks associated with this subject. With that, please keep the following in mind anytime you read or post on this particular forum:
The normal Membership Agreement and the following standards all apply to this forum and will be strictly enforced.
This forum is only to discuss the specific topic of breeding, and not specific breeders or their breeding programs.
The posting of advertisements or links to advertisements for available dogs or puppies is not permitted.
When asking questions about breeding, be aware that you may not always receive the answer you're seeking. You may receive an answer that is the exact opposite of what you were hoping for, or a reply in disagreement with your statement or plans. If this is not acceptable to you, and you are hoping for one specific answer, or total agreement, then do not post your question at all.
When discussing the subject of breeding, or anything associated with this subject, be sure to keep your focus on the subject, rather than the people involved in the discussion. In other words, discuss the subject, not the person.
Choose your words carefully! It's more difficult to convey our ideas in print than it is in person. The words you use are the only thing you have to communicate your thoughts, and this means that you must pay close attention to the words you use.
Discussion in the Pug Breeding forum must remain civil and free of rancor at all times.
The PugVillage Community Forum Administrator and Moderators reserve the right to lock and/or delete any thread (or individual posts within a thread) on the Pug Breeding forum at their sole discretion without explanation. Threads or posts that fail to adhere to the normal standards as communicated in the Membership Agreement or the specific guidelines here, fail to have a discernable purpose or cease to continue in a constructive manner may be locked or deleted at anytime.
Behavior that consistantly and/or intentionally disrupts otherwise civil discussion on the Pug Breeding forum may result in the termination of your Membership to the PugVillage Community Forum without warning or notice.
By posting in the Pug Breeding Forum, the PugVillage Community Forum Administrator and Moderators assume that you have read and agree to these terms, and those in the regular Membership Agreement.
If these terms and guidelines are not agreeable and acceptable to you, please do not post in the Pug Breeding Forum.[/b]
Last edited by Karl Ellzey; 04-13-2009 at 04:51 PM.
I certainly agree Michael, what a refreshing change of pace! Thanks Dante!
If you never change your mind, how can you be sure you have one?
I agree with the guidelines as posted but was wondering if you could maybe add something to them. Given the recent postings, I'm thinking that maybe you should add that if a posted isn't actually answering the question(s), but is only lecturing on having the dog fixed, than that individual should also refrain from posting.
Just a thought!
I would second that.
If I were to do this, then I'd be taking away the opportunity for someone to express their opinion on a subject they're intersted in, and which is important to them...And at the same time separating people into two groups who cannot, and will not share their ideas.I'm thinking that maybe you should add that if a posted isn't actually answering the question(s), but is only lecturing on having the dog fixed, than that individual should also refrain from posting.
Is that really what we want to do here?
The end result of doing what you're suggesting is to say to people, "you can't comment on this thread unless you tell me what I want to hear"....Because anyone can perceive any conflicting opinion as a "lecture", or as an "attack" or as not being "helpful".
And then, we'd end up having two groups of people...Those interested in breeding, and those who strictly advocate leaving breeding to the professionals, each segregated from the other.
No exchange of ideas would take place, and there would be no possible opportunity for people of differing viewpoints to understand eachother and learn from eachother.
I don't think that's what this forum is about.
Ask yourself this question:
If you were to decide to take an interest in breeding, and asked people here to point you to resources to help learn about breeding, wouldn't you want to hear from people who have bred dogs successfully and from people who experienced tragedy when they attempted breeding? Such as the bitch dying? Or the loss of the litter?
Doing what you're suggesting disqualifies the people who had negative breeding experiences from commenting...And it disqualifies you from receiving the benefit of their experiences.
Rather than do this, I think it's best for everyone that all have the opportunity to contribute to these threads in the hope that information is shared, knowledge is obtained and, if we're lucky, truly civil and useful discussions on a typically heated subject will occur.
The trick for people on all sides of this heated issue is to express ourselves as best we can without "lecturing"....And for people to read about this subject without interpreting every contrary or conflicting opinion as lecturing because quite often, there is no intent to "lecture".
This isn't the easy way to do things that's for sure. But then again, breeding isn't always easy.
My hope is that these guidelines will create a framework from which a true exchange of ideas will take place in a civil fashion, and in turn benefit everyone. With a little effort from all who post on the Pug Breeder Forum, we can create an atmosphere where this is possible.
I understand what you are saying but at the same time I believe that when a specific question is being asked then attention to that question should be given in the response.
When asking for resources on any topic (breeding or otherwise) it is always important to see both sides. However, accusations and implications of selfishness do not seem important, appropriate, or helpful.
Perhaps the problem arose because the offending post did not seem to follow the guidelines. Now that everyone has refreshed their memory of those guidelines, this won't be an issue in the future.
I agree, and there was attention given to the question in this case prior to the thread taking a negative turn.I understand what you are saying but at the same time I believe that when a specific question is being asked then attention to that question should be given in the response.
We can't control the posts of others, but we can control our own posts. We have the option to reply or not to reply. We also have the option of choosing how we're going to reply if indeed we decide to do so.
What I'm saying here is that when we see a reply that offends us, we can:
1. Fight about it, which in turn becomes equally inappropriate, unhelpful and makes it impossible for the original poster to receive any further answers...
2. Or we can ignore it, which would allow the discussion to continue so that the original poster can still benefit and have answers to the question.
3. Perhaps even better, rather than engaging in a fight, or ignoring the replies, we could also choose to engage the people we disagree with in further civil and polite discussion...Which would also benefit the original poster.
The easiest thing to do is to fight, and that's the path that is almost always taken when this subject is discussed..no matter where it's discussed. It helps no one.
My hope is to prevent that from happening here, but that's not in my control. The people who post on this subject control that. It's up to them.
All I can do is provide the opportunity for the subject to be discussed, and try to create an atmosphere where the fighting doesn't occur...Because that's the only one of the 3 possible choices above that will always prevent the original poster from having their questions answered and discussed.
And yes, hopefully the refresher on the guidelines will prevent future problems like this...If it does, great....If not, then I hope we'll all keep trying to make the discussion of this subject work, without the usual destructive effects it has.
For what it's worth, I vote for your suggested option number three!
(By the way, would you like a black and white striped shirt, whistle and hat for Xmas?)
Let's keep the dialogue open, people!
We are talking about our passion for pugs, not trying to solve global issues! :beatnik:
I was just browsing through some forums that I haven't visited before when I came across your guidelines for this Breeding forum. Personally, I believe firmly in having all rescue pets spayed/neutered - but I also believe in the healthy exchange of ideas. The guidelines that you have set forth helps to remind me that I shouldn't lock my ideas in stone and that I should keep an open mind to other's points of view. For that reminder, I sincerely thank you.
We are new to Pug Village and I found these guidelines to be both interesting and helpful. My family has not had a member of the canine species for over 25 years until 15 months ago. My adult children broke me down and a little black pug invaded our space. Life has not been the same since the day she walked through the door and I don't know and cannot even invision what it will be like without her at any point in the future. I had wanted a bulldog--hoping for a quiet, rather lethargic animal that would not need too much of my time. Instead, I got DIVA DOG!!! She demands ALL of my time and attention. So much so, that we got her a sister who is as silly and funny as she is prissy and demanding. With so little "dog experience" we researched breeds and options as to where to obtain a dog. Our decision in the end was to get puppies from a breeder as we had Sammie the rabbit to think about. I had vision of Sammie and Sosa becoming friends--WRONG ASSUMPTION--but I thought it would work better with a puppy. We also are gone a lot and did not know how well we would be able to care for an animal who may have been used and neglected. We ended up with two wonderful, enchanting and loving little creatures who are training us in how to own a pug!!! Some days are very trying, but others--we just love them so much. At any rate, they are very loved and well taken care of. We learned a hard lesson about breeding as we introduced these two into our lives. I had already been talking to a breeder when my daughter found Sosa, the little black girl. Who could say no to a little black pug? We decided to get the other puppy anyway, but unfortunately, the breeder's entire litter died due to an puppy #11 who had not fully developed and never delivered. She got a uterine infection and all of the 10 puppies died with the exception of ours. Unfortunately, she lived until a week before we were to get her and she died suddenly. That was enough to convince me that breeding would never happen at out house. It was so sad for everyone since it was right before Christmas last year and we had a stocking hung up for her already. We did eventually get another puppy from the same breeder in the spring when another female delivered. It is a happy family at this point. Never in a million years was I prepared to be chastised and even humiliated in a public setting because I purchased our dogs from a breeder, but I was in a local dog park a lady confronted me. She was from a rescue and she went on and on and on about all the dogs without homes and how could we possibly purchase from a breeder. My daughter and I finally left because it was really embarrassing. We had another incident not too long ago where I was again confronted and I just really felt bad afterwards. My daughter said it was like we had done something really wrong and that our little girls did not deserve such a good home. No one really wanted to hear about our circumstances or why we made the choices that we did or how good we take care of our babies. We have very much felt the negative side of the debate. Since we bought our puppies, we have learned so much and are so much more aware of the need for homes for other puppies. Our next addition will most likely come from a rescue, but not because of the deprecating and embarrassing incidents that have occurred, but because of the great friends we have made and who we see at pug activities and talk to on the message boards. The point is that there certainly is a place for both dialogues and they need to occur. At times, it has been tough trying to raise these two little girls, especially the little black one who has been through worms, demodectic mites & mange, pancreatitis (which almost took her from us) and the last thing we have ever needed was to be told that we should not have bought her. With all of those issues, where would she be without us--in a rescue? The negative incidents have brought us closer to our other rescue friends who have met our girls and love them like we do and have been very supportive. They know that we are good pug parents and just learning each and everyday and that when the time is right we will rescue a dog because of them. It is about education and that ususally occurs when there is positive dialogue and a willingness to listen--even when it is to negativity. The result of negative confrontations directed me to others who gave me good information and positive support. Sometimes the negative serves as an impetus to taking positive action. Connie, Sosa and Sasha