aaaand they drew blood :(
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    Julia&Toby's Avatar
    Julia&Toby is offline Village Governor
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    Default aaaand they drew blood :(

    fighting that is. I knew it would happen eventually! Betz has a spot on the top of her head where Tobes must have bit her and she bled a bit. Now they will playfully wrestle and "make out fight" a lot (mouthing each other), but at times it gets nastier, if one of us leaves the room or goes out in the garage or something, Betz will turn on Tobes and get nasty. I think that is the kind of fight that drew blood. We try to separate them as quick as possible in those fights, but their regular play fighting freaks me out some too, as they are now biting each other's faces. They will grab the loose skin around the neck or the cheeks, or bite each other's collars/tags. I am worried about a potential eye injury :(

    do your pugs fight like this? ever draw blood? Any suggestions besides spray bottle + separating them? We can't leave the blinds open anymore because if they see a car or a person or dog outside they turn on each other and fight.
    My two fat pugs! Toby rescued April 25, 2008 & Betz rescued November 15, 2009.

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    Cheyenne's Avatar
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    My Pugs do the play (?) fighting quit a bit. Since I am never really sure if they are playing, we don't stand for it. Period. Usually a sharp verbal command will put an end to it. When it doesn't, because I never seem to have the squirt bottle handy when I need it, I will just get right in the middle of it and separate them. I know that is the worst thing to do but if I get bit someday, so be it. I am, like you, afraid of an eye injury. Milo especially seems to "mouth" Suki on the head. But Suki's no angel and starts it probably more than half the time. She actually will stalk him and when he makes a run for it to get away from her, she starts to growl and chase after him. Like I said, I'm never sure if they are playing or fighting. Fortunately, neither one of them has ever drawn blood on each other. I've never had them turn on each other and fight due to outside stimuli like a passing car, person or other animal. Usually in those cases, they are side by side at the picture window barking their heads off at the "offender." The really funny thing is that when they are alone together in a room, they don't harass each other. It's always when either I or my husband are in the room. It's almost like they do it for attention, maybe?
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    Clara's mom is offline Village Mayor
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    Do you have a good trainer in your area that can come to your home for a one on one session?
    When I had a trainer come out and my two(non pugs,bully mix and pit foster) were like wild maniacs because they were excited that someone was at the door. The trainer told me that it was very good to see that it did not escalate into a fight with them being so excited because with dogs being so amped up like my two were that's when you'll usually get a fight. So this is somewhat similar to your blind problem. I was also told that they need to understand that this is absolutely unacceptable behavior. So I was to let them know that I am in charge and they couldn't walk past the imaginary line into the kitchen where the door was. I did this by hands on hips and telling them no and basically walking towards them so they would have to back up and put into a sit/say and as soon as they moved ,I'd an ahhh,ahhh no. So maybe try that with the blinds problem? These dogs(the bullies) BTW are very sensitive so I could not use a stern tone with them. I spoke softly and lowered my voice so they had to listen and it got their attention.

    I would also separate your two when you leave them alone. I'd be worried about the face attacks and an eye getting nicked or hematoma in an ear from a puncture. It sounds like they are also trying to work out who is top dog.

    Good luck to you,

    Trish

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    Julia&Toby's Avatar
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    I do think they are still trying to figure out which pug is on top. Tobes was super submissive the first few weeks, now he will chase HER. We don't mind them playing tug, wrestling, chasing each other, etc. It's the mouthing and then escalation that worries me. It is very much one of them changes the "tone" (gets excited by some stimuli) and then Betz starts a fight.

    they will fight over our laps, but we just get up and take the lap away in that case. Betz doesn't want Tobes in either of our laps, she hops on him and bites his ear if he is snuggling one of us. We have used the squirt bottle and "leave it" to start to cut back on that behavior.

    I have a hard time staying calm when they fight, which I know is bad, it's just hard to remember to be calm and assertive when they are going at it! The weather has been bad for weeks, and I am hoping that when it warms up we can exercise them more and get out of the house more, which I think will tire them out. Til then we are doing more training inside (Betz is still learning sit, stay, leave it, down, etc) to tire them out. We are hoping that as she gets better trained she will calm down more.
    My two fat pugs! Toby rescued April 25, 2008 & Betz rescued November 15, 2009.

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    We had Barkbusters come out when we had issues with our Rat Terrier. He trained us more so than our rattie... and guess what?? It works.. it's a constant training and keeping up... Luke was snapping and growling at us! We weren't giving him what he needed and he was protecting us by snapping and growling... he thought we were lower in the pack and he was doing his best to protect us.

    That has all changed... now he looks to us for direction. It is a long road and one that you cannot stop, calm reinforcement and priase all of the time.

    Starts with basic commands... the recall. The biggest thing was to get his attention. Barkbusters uses this bag that has a chain inside, you slam it down on the floor and it sure does get their attention... then you have to follow it with a command.

    Luke is like a new doggie.. he is still a little bit skiddish, but nothing like he was, his confidence is growing everyday.

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    Meelah and Angus usually grab the roles I try to break them fast I have gotten bit a few times really surprised they can bite so hard with an under bite! All siblings fight so we just try not to have them too often. They are always going to work on the pecking order so pack behavior is normal.
    "A life without pugs is possible but pointless." Vicco von Bülow My Sweet Babies until we meet again at the Bridge Sassi (1998 - 2011) Angus (2005 - 2017) Meelah (2005 - 2018) Sissi (2011 - 2019) Cecil (2018 - 2020)

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    mine are borther and sister. they have known each other all thier lives. Karli is trying to be alpha bitch and Rudy is timid ans submissive for the most part but there are times taht rudy just doesn't take it.. noone has drawn blood but the play "fighting " does escalate at times and i have to separate them b/c they just dont listen to me sometimes or one will stop, sit and listen and the other one will take advantage and pounce...
    Traci- mommy to Rudy and Karli
    Honestly, i dont know what made me fall in love with pugs initially, but it's everything about pugs that has made me stay in love with them. Karlihttp://www.dogster.com/dogs/1055064
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    Wonka & Nilla is offline Village Dancing Jitterpug
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    Oh dear. This story worries me because it reminds me of Miss Nilla and Wonka in the early days. I'm hoping your situation is nothing so bad as ours was, but please know that there is hope, and you can turn it around. The first and most important thing right now is to seek the advice of a positive based trainer or, better yet, a behaviorist who can give you one-on-one guidance and get you started on the proper training path. Start now and don't let it get worse!
    Quote Originally Posted by Julia&Toby View Post
    We can't leave the blinds open anymore because if they see a car or a person or dog outside they turn on each other and fight.
    Oh yes, I SO know what this is like! Trust me, if keeping the blinds closed is what prevents a fight, then do it until you can do training to solve the issue. We have curtains and Nilla used to push them open so she could look out - so I sunk to putting large pieces of cardboard in the lower half of our windows so she couldn't see out. I'm sure it made the neighbors wonder, but it also saved us from Nilla getting over-stimulated and freaking out about someone walking by. It will take time for the training you do to sink in and in the meantime, a few weeks or months with the blinds closed will do a lot to keep the peace.

    The important thing right now is to minimize the things that will trigger a fight and keep the dogs separated if there is a possibility of fights. Don't leave them home alone and loose together - crate or separate. You want to practice positive interactions whenever the dogs are together and minimize the reactivity level at the doors, windows, etc - whatever is setting them off. As our trainer says "don't give them any opportunities to 'practice' fighting."

    For me, the hardest part of having pug-fights in the house was the guilt and stress that I felt. I could never keep calm when a fight broke out - I knew I was supposed to, but I always panicked a bit while I was separating them... just couldn't help it. I also felt a tremendous amount of guilt over bringing this into my poor, sweet Wonka's (previously) quiet life. He went from submissive and happy to being nervous and on the defensive and, worse yet, before we got things under control, Wonka had even started to do a little pre-emptive attacking (I'm gonna get Nilla before she gets me). I cried a lot in those days. However, things are different today and we rarely have pug-fights. Wonka and Nilla can even play "blender face" (supervised) without it escalating. We know what Nilla's triggers are and we minimize those as much as possible. It took a lot of training (still ongoing daily) to get to this point, but we have a happier household now.

    PM me if you want to talk about it more or want to know some of the training things we did (and continue to do, it never ends!)
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    I don't have anything new to add but I will second the squirt bottle suggestion! It's a miracle worker.
    Meredith, Libby & Mushu




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    Clara's mom is offline Village Mayor
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    The other thing that might help with the bad weather is puzzle,brain games to help with some of that energy. We bought two Nina Ottosson puzzles and it is THE best investment. Here's a link Nina Ottosson Interactive Toys We have The Spinny and The Brick. I ordered them through Jeffers (I'll post link later) because it was the least expensive place and they were on sale as part of their Christmas special. Ours are plastic. I figured that would be the easiest to clean up the dog slobber. I use Natural Balance Turkey Roll cut up into eraser size bits for the games.
    The other thing I do is roll the jolly ball down the stairs and let the dogs chase after that(individually) and bring back up and repeat The treadmill has worked wonders and also the laser pointer helps get the pent up energy out. Can you tell we have bad winters here,lol? Our trainer taught us how to make toy/treat distributers out of plastic bottles which will keep a dog occupied for a good hour. Feel free to pm me for instructions.

    Take care,
    Trish

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