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    Tygermoth's Avatar
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    Default Help Nina_W!

    Hi Nina,

    I hope you don't mind me asking for help.

    I have hit a bit of a brick wall with Barrys training. He is getting rather frustrated with me!

    We are learning the 'put it away' trick currently and we have targeted the item fine, we have targeted the item in the box, fine.....

    Here we hit the stumbling block... He will target forever but is not ramping up to mouthing it! which we need.

    So, we have been doing this for a few mins a day with free shaping every day for week.... and we are not moving on.

    Rather than prompting i thought i just needed to sit tight and let him work it out. So i just let it play out today hoping he would finally mouth it. All that happened was he busted out all his moves (i could hear him thinking.. down? nope. Wave? nope. Paw it? nope. how about another down? roll over? lets try Paw it again? nope ....)... none of which was mouthing the toy.... for him to finish with him looking at me this morning with 'WHAT!' 'waddya want me to do?' all over his face.

    and then he stomped off....



    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...2007.06.53.mp4

    he has had no issues with mouthing before... so my conclusion is i must be missing something...

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...2017.21.44.mp4
    Last edited by Tygermoth; 10-28-2015 at 03:47 AM.
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    Samantha and Lord Barrington Smythe (Barry the Pug)

    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally... :D

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    Nina_W's Avatar
    Nina_W is offline Village Story Teller
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    Hello!

    That's a gorgeous 'open the door' you've got there!
    I'm not quite sure what you're expecting him to do - is it that you want him to mouth the toy in the box (eventually being able to remove the toy from the box)?

    Have you tried playing tug with the toy? Does he usually tug with this toy (is this something he puts in his mouth)?

    Just to be clear - you've gotten him to target the toy - does that mean stare at it, press your mouth against it? And without the box, he's only targeted the toy, yes? So he does exactly what he's been 'taught' to do with the toy when you put it in the box?

    I'll watch the video a few more times, and then I'll see what you answer to the above, then we can figure out a plan!
    Shame, he does look frustrated, but we'll figure it out :)

    (I suspect the way forward will be to teach the entire behaviour chain without a box first, then to put it in the box - and also, I suspect starting with a toy he generally tugs with or otherwise carries around... maybe even your door rope... will help him understand. Otherwise, we start at an entirely different point to help prompt mouthing. Or, as a last resort, we make it smell like food. Always more than one way :) )


    ... also, it's been a week. Talos learnt to pick up the fabric's corner in her mouth in like a day. She learnt to pull on it really quickly. But to teach her she needs to keep pulling until it's all off... that took weeks of back and forth. I had to figure out that I had to make ever more difficult 'set ups' where she could sometimes pull it off by only applying the slightest pull, and other times more force (and then even more force) is needed. Early days yet :)
    Last edited by Nina_W; 10-28-2015 at 05:09 AM.

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    Tygermoth's Avatar
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    Hi Nina,

    Thank you for coming back to me. I agree that I am making a hash of this one. all previous tricks have been picked up in a day, then refined over a week, then proofed in different places and times. Its usually light-hearted fun, we both look forward to it and not frustrating for either of us.

    Also, if you cant work out what I am looking to achieve with this trick then what's the chance that Barry is confused too! :D

    Targeting is usually touching with his face and in the past moved on to mouthing…

    For example the door pull.

    1. Sit by the door and look at the ribbon

    2. Rewards when targets with his face

    3. Reward until he has this behaviour pretty set

    4. Stop rewarding and wait until he tries other behaviours to trigger a reward

    5. Soon as he put in his mouth - jack pot! Reward reward!

    6. Reward until he has this behaviour pretty set

    7. Stop rewarding and wait until he tries other behaviours to trigger a reward

    8. Pulled the ribbon a little - jack pot! Reward!

    9. Reward until he has this behaviour pretty set

    10. Stop rewarding and wait until he tries other behaviours to trigger a reward

    11. Pulled harder and the door opened - jack pot! Reward reward!

    12. Reward until he has this behaviour pretty set

    So with the ‘put it away’ you tube training videos I have seen they start with the dog holding the toy in his mouth to be offered a reward so he then drops it in the box to make the association.

    As the above 'door pull' set up worked well (it was done in a day) I was trying to do the same format

    1. Sit with the toy

    2. Rewards when targets with his face (in hand and also in box)

    3. Reward until he has this behaviour pretty set

    4. Stop rewarding and wait until he tries other behaviours to trigger a reward

    This is where we fell down; he offers many different behaviours (bless him) but doesn’t seem to think of mouthing the toy.

    It’s highly likely I am approaching this wrong – I will try the tug (he loves tug!) and then with the box below him offer a treat to drop the toy.
    Last edited by Tygermoth; 10-28-2015 at 09:14 AM.
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    Samantha and Lord Barrington Smythe (Barry the Pug)

    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally... :D

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    Nina_W's Avatar
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    Ok, I'll give it a think and write back to you tomorrow :)

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    Morning!

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Wavetonina.mp4

    We had a bit of sucess this morning. Barry was still a bit grumpy so we started off with fun a quick tricks.

    Then i busted out the high high value treats (fresh cooked bacon) after a flap by Barry cause he wanted the bacon we did some targeting of the toy.

    We did some fetch - he was not having tug! nope.

    But after a moment or two he mouthed the toy! he was so happy because just kept giving him bacon! :)

    i stopped after that. Our agility trainer always stop on a high and don't press it. so we will see if tomorrow we make progress.
    Samantha and Lord Barrington Smythe (Barry the Pug)

    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally... :D

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    Update.

    Lord smythe just walked into the office with the darned toy firmly in his mug.

    I whooped and holla'd like he had solved world hunger.

    I quickly lined up the box asked him to drop and.....



    as you can tell by his face you can see he has no idea what just happened - it blatantly says, 'what is going on, you crazy crazy person?'. :D

    So this is NOT a learned trick yet, but hey! we are on the way.
    Last edited by Tygermoth; 10-30-2015 at 03:13 AM.
    Samantha and Lord Barrington Smythe (Barry the Pug)

    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally... :D

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    Good boy, Barry!

    What a fun little read this thread was, with a jackpot at the end =D
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    HAY!!! That's amazing!

    I love his confused face :) Well done :)

    I've got no time right now, but I owe you a better written set of suggestions. Sorry!!!
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    Hooray for Barry! They really do want to please us. It's just up to us how to get across what we want from them and you are doing an excellent job.
    We never touch people so lightly that we don't leave a trace.

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    Its raining cats and dogs here. So ole princess sugar paws didn't want to go out. After much persuasion we did, only for me fall on my arse and hurt my back (its only a spasm, i fall over alot) He looked at me like 'well thats karma for dragging me out in torrential rain' and trotted of with his nose in the air while i struggled up out of the mud.

    so there was going to be no training as i cant really bend.

    Then like yesterday Barry wandered into the office with the toy in his mug!

    We were very hit and miss getting it into the box - he has not got the full jist of it yet... but thats fine. :)
    Last edited by Tygermoth; 10-30-2015 at 03:34 AM.
    Lu Ci and Ri Ki likes this.
    Samantha and Lord Barrington Smythe (Barry the Pug)

    Please note I have a cognitive disability - as such my wording can be a bit off, muddled, misspelt or in some cases i can miss out some words totally... :D

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